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Hork--I first heard this term in a movie from the early 80's entitled "Strange Brew", featuring the SNL characters Bob & Doug McKenzie. The scene was when they were plying hockey wearing Star Wars type gear. When they went back to the locker room to change, they discovered that the bad guys had stolen their street clothes...."Hey! Someone horked our clothes! Who would wanna hork our clothes!"
------------------ The K-Wolf, Daron
Posts: 490 | From: Irving, TX. USA | Registered: May 1999
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Okay, just got busted for premature big-mouth-ation. Or, as it has previously been explained to me, this is just one of the reasons we don't announce in advance.
Cranberries is a licensing/publishing no-can-do. At least not in any type of compilation format. Same with Mary Chapin Carpenter, Tori Amos, Tom Petty, etc.
Maybe we can use the Indigo Girls with Shawn Colvin and another fitting female.
Posts: 4262 | From: Charlotte, N.C., USA | Registered: Oct 1999
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I second Rebecca's idea. Indigo Girls songs with and without backing vocals, so they can be sung as solo or duet. Don't know how much demand there is for this, but it works for me...
Posts: 386 | From: Santa Rosa, CA, USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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What about recording the backing vocals as multiplex so that the KJ could leave them in for soloists and take them out for duets?
Posts: 235 | From: Plano, TX | Registered: Apr 1999
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Given that Beth Hart has had one radio single, I doubt very much that SC would consider her as a 3rd artist for either a Star or a 3-of-a-Kind disc. Her album rocks, but in the world of cd+g production, that doesn't amount to much.
How about Paula Cole, Natalie Imbruglia or Sarah McLachlan for the 3rd artist?
Posts: 386 | From: Santa Rosa, CA, USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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Sarah has her own Star coming out before the end of the year, Natalie has Publishing issues (no compilations), and Paula is an interesting idea (although, she also may have publishing issues; it seems like a lot of these girls are Very Serious Artistes).
Sorry, Alayne, but MadGrrrl is right about Beth Hart. At least, for now.
To do the dual mixes ideas for the Indigo Girls or anyone else, it would probably have to be on their own Star (not out of the question) as you would be limited in the number of songs. 4 songs with dual mixes on a Star with the Vocal Demonstration mix for each equal 16 tracks.
Which, naturally, brings up the issue of cost per song and overall value. Basically, that seems like a pretty limited market to me.
This is a fun idea for certain songs. I've tried to do this when possible as a bonus track. We just did it with the Kinley's single that's out now, and also for the Faith Hill/Tim McGraw duet from her last CD. But I can't remember when those discs will be out.
Posts: 4262 | From: Charlotte, N.C., USA | Registered: Oct 1999
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I don't know what you'd call this type of disc, since it's neither a Star nor a Spotlight, but I'm sure those that would like a disc along the lines of the Indigo Girls disc with and without the harmonies, could probably do without the vocal demonstration tracks. I doubt that there are enough of these types of songs to make a new line, but probably enough to make the occasional special release.
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I think I've suggested this before, but I certainly think Indigo Girls would be worthy of a Star Disc all their own. Although they've never had a HUGE hit, they do have many songs that have gotten considerable airplay on Adult Contemporary radio, including:
A Hammer and a Nail Let It Be Me Closer to Fine Galileo Uncle John's Band (originally the Grateful Dead) Power of Two Shame on You Peace Tonight Go
I'd be thrilled to have ANY of these on karaoke...
Posts: 386 | From: Santa Rosa, CA, USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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BC, I have another suggestion for you. I know this just made your day . Anyway, maybe you guys should compile a list of all the artists that you know of that won't allow karaoke of their music, and post that list on the main Song Requests Forum page. Unless of course, that list would take over the page itself, in which case I guess it could be it's own page, with a link. Then put a disclaimer up that says something like "before requesting songs, please check this list to see if that artist allows their music to be used for karaoke". I know this won't stop everybody who request karaoke no-no's, but I'm sure it would cut it back, and save you from having to repeat yourself whenever somebody new asks for Eagles, Motown, etc. Just a thought.
First of all, while I know something about this topic, I also know enough to be dangerous. I am definitely not the expert about publishing rights, and do not claim to be.
But, since you asked... I asked the PTB ('powers that be') about doing that exact idea several months ago.
Part of the answer is that, not only does the list change, depending on new songs and new writers, but the list will change for certain artists depending on the individual song and individual songwriters.
It is constantly changing, very dynamic, liquid, difficult, at best, to predict. In effect, in order to give us the best odds, our policy is not to Rock the Boat, Let A Sleeping Dog Lie, - Fill In Your Own Applicable, Time-Honored, Hackneyed Homily.
For instance, look at Garth Brooks. We can do a Garth song that he didn't write or co-write, but we are usually denied the licenses for a song Garth writes. Same with the Eagles (hence, In The City and Ole '55). Since we were granted licenses for the songs on our Garth Spotlight years ago, that specific disc can be continually re-released. But if we were to apply for those licenses to the same songs, but for a new disc/product, we would be denied. And every time you use those songs on a new or different product, you have to apply for, obtain, and pay for the use of the song/s - again.
More confounding, Tori Amos' dad (who administrates her catalog) lets us do one Tori song per disc, but won't let us compile multiple songs onto a Star, 3 Of A Kind, etc.
Then you have the songs with multiple writers, some of whom grant the necessary licenses, and some who don't (Ricky Martin's 1st CD had a couple like this).
It's actually easier to do it with writers like Henley or Pearl Jam, or catalogs like ABKCO, who just blanket deny. At least we know the rules and risks.
Basically, we try to make as little noise in the area of publishing rights as is possible. Hope that gives you some insight; believe me, this whole topic is like dealing with CIA black ops at times.
Posts: 4262 | From: Charlotte, N.C., USA | Registered: Oct 1999
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Thanks for the info BC. I had no idea it got that nit-picky with some of these artists. I just find it hard to beleive that some of them have nothing better to do than screw with their fans like this. What do they do wake up and say "well, nothing else goin on, might as well deny karaoke rights for x songs". If they bothered to pay attention, they'd know a quality company like Sound Choice isn't going to make a mockery of the songs. Backstage, Standing Ovation, yes, but SC, no. Guess there's no point in whining any more about it. I'm just glad my favourite Garth tunes are written by others.
I think the Henley/Vedder/Lisa Thomas outlook of "karaoke sucks" is probably in the minority.
I really think most of their logic revolves around protecting their image, trademark, and, most important: the moneymaking potential of their copyrights, i.e., no overexposure.
Of course, when Tori Amos doesn't have a career to speak of (say within 36 months), Daddy may want to re-evaluate his position.
Posts: 4262 | From: Charlotte, N.C., USA | Registered: Oct 1999
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I ran across some documents on the internet and found them to be quite entertaining (and somewhat insightful). Here's one of them. If you're interested, you can read the others by following the links...
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YES!! YES!! YES!! AN ALL MATCHBOX 20 DISK!!! when you make it PLEASE consider putting the songs " HANG " and " BENT " on it!!! thanks!
Posts: 17 | Registered: Apr 2000
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No surprise here... all you have to do is look at the ticket prices of his latest tour to see what type of guy he is... He must have to charge so much in order to employ all these lawyers....
Posts: 575 | From: West Hartford, CT USA | Registered: Apr 2000
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Jimmy Buffett shut down a little mom and pop restaurant here in Oklahoma named..you guessed it..Margaritaville! I heard Jimmy made $26 million in 1998. What could these small-timers do to him?
Well, folks, it the old story of the camel with his nose under the tent. It's the same reason ol' SpinDog likes to destroy lives. You let a thing get started and it goes on and on and on.
People don't always read everything written, not even in these posts!! Many folks who visit that site would think Don Henly was now some evangelist or something. He may be an atheist and not want his name associated with Jesus Christ. Or some religion who doesn't believe in Christ.
I will bet that fellow was really trying to SELL his website to Henly. I have heard of that a lot on the web. People have gotten rich selling names.
I think you are right in what you say about artists wanting to protect their song. I heard on TV that Lee Iacocca once offered Bruce Springsteen $12 million to use the song "Born in the USA" in some method for a commercial. Never heard it, did you?
People! When a songwriter sits down and creates a song, he/she brings something to this world that has not existed since the dawn of time. Don't you think you would be a little protective of such an accomplishment? I would! Didn't Travis Tritt record the Eagles song, "Take it Easy"? Frankly, I like his version better.
If there were more singers like those on YOUR BIG BREAK and less like those who are drunk and slobbering on the mike, maybe the writers would think differently. And, folks, that ain't gonna happen...
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I highly doubt that any of these people really suffer by web sites that have the same name. Julia Roberts just won a case against someone who bought up the "julia-roberts.com" domain name for trademark infringement... There was no web site, no profit being made, just that someone who had actually been there first to purchase the domain name. If these so-called trademarked artists like Don Henley gave a rats-behind about anything other than themselves, they might see that having their music enter the karaoke arena could actually help to increase sales of their catalog. It's ironic that a band that won't allow karaoke versions of it's hit songs to be produced has the stones to charge $95 and up for a nosebleed concert seat to hear them play 15+ year old material. 100 years from now... no one will care about Don Henley or the Eagles. The body of work he possesses is NOT that important to the world. And people wonder why there are so many lawyers in the world....
Posts: 575 | From: West Hartford, CT USA | Registered: Apr 2000
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So, why would some woman buy Julia-Roberts.com? I mean she paid money, right? It is an investment! If Julia wants the name, she has to buy it from this speculator.
And are people paying $95 for those nose-bleed seats? If they are, then the Eagles must put on one hell of a show! I think this is called free enterprize.
And, well, no one ever paid $100 to watch some sweaty jocks bounce a stupd ball around, now have they?
quote:Originally posted by Alayne: What about recording the backing vocals as multiplex so that the KJ could leave them in for soloists and take them out for duets?
Since Sound Choice does not do this, I don't think I will violate BC's rules by saying this. Many of Priddis' songs have no back up vocals on them. I have one Kenny Rogers and one James Taylor that I wish did have them. Anyway, for a measley $5 per song you could have those songs for those times when you want someone to back you up live.
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Regarding the Don Henley website thing. I hope I don't repeat anything here, but I am in a time bind and didn't read that letter that was posted from Henley's lawyers. Anyway, this talk came up on an Eagles list that i'm on last year when it all happened. The guy that bought don-henley.com is a preacher named Don Henley, and he is older than Eagle Henley ( who in his concert pics is looking VERY old, btw). Preacher Henley's defense was basically that he was Don Henley first, and since his site is not a money making site, and not capitalizing on Eagle Henley's popularity, that he can use that name. Obviously, since the link above works, Preacher Henley has won that argument. I guess Eagle Henley figured that www.donhenley.com would suffice for his website, since that's where info on his album/tour is now.
On that Eagles list, it seems that every other week, somebody posts an article about Henley suing somebody else for something stupid. One of the lyrics to Get Over It is "Let's kill all the lawyers, kill them tonight" Yeah, right. Then what would Don have to do for fun.
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And Henley stole that line about killing lawyers from Shakespeare.
Posts: 1025 | From: San Francisco, CA, USA | Registered: Jul 1999
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I must be a complete moron, but I don't understand what the big deal is for these stars and not allowing their songs on karaoke. Any hack can sing their songs anytime they want at a club with a cover band so what difference does it make if they do this at karaoke? Risk of "overexposure" is definitely NOT one of their considerations I'm sure. I would have thought Britney Spears and the boy bands are way overexposed and it hasn't seemed to hurt their record sales any! They should realize how many times when I sing a song at a show (as happens to many others) and have someone come up and tell me they loved it wanting to know who sings it and what album it's on (sorry, CD I meant). I have generated plenty of CD sales for country artists and I'm sure that many other singers have done the same for artists of different genres. I can't tell you how many times I've had someone request a song and when I tell them it's not available due to publishing restrictions they get mad at the artist and it may even cost them sales and fans. Someone needs to clue these people into the way the world really is!
Posts: 139 | From: Baltimore, MD USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Exactly, Silky. I can't count the number of CD's in my collection that are there as a result of karaoke. And tapes before I even got a CD player. Add up how much we singers spend on CD of the artists, and how much royalties they get from the sale of karaoke music, and I'm sure it adds to a nice sum.
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I believe Don Henley's concern is the CDG format. I think he said that having the lyrics on screen with the music cheapens his art or some such nonsense. My husband says that all the anti-karaoke artists are just mad that everybody knows their secret now. They've used teleprompters (for their lyrics) at concerts for years.
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Thats certainly a true statement. Anyone who has been to a recent Billy Joel concert can attest to that. He has a little TV monitor with the lyrics right next to his grand piano at all times. Can't fault a guy who plays three-hour concerts though... With all the songs he wrote and performs, I can see how he could possibly become confused about lyrics during a performance Posts: 575 | From: West Hartford, CT USA | Registered: Apr 2000
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I can top that: the last time I saw R.E.M. live (about 4 years ago), Michael Stipe had a friggin' music stand (the black, ugly high-school-band-style) with lyric sheets on it. I found it terribly disrespectful to the audience. Karaoke is one thing, but if you're gonna make millions of dollars performing songs you wrote for thousands of people, at least have the common decency to memorize the f-ing words, so you can put on a proper show, willya?
Posts: 386 | From: Santa Rosa, CA, USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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Cute story: I was listening to Love Line on the radio the other day, and Rob Thomas and Adam from Matchbox 20 (TWENTY, excuse me) were the guests. They had a girl call and ask if they still had the 'cue cards' from a certain concert. Turns out, they played 3 nights in this city, and at the first 2 shows Rob T. forgot the words to one of his songs, same spot each night. At the third concert some obsessed fan (went to all 3 shows? 'nuff said) held up cue cards with the words.
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-cheap trick is a great choice w/ she's tight -------------monkees disc--------- 1/shades of gray 2/i'm a believer 3/hard to believe 4/star collector 5/she hangs out 6/she 7/monkees theme song 8/valeri 9/that was then/ this is now Posts: 880 | From: jacksonville, fl | Registered: May 1999
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I'll follow up the above post with the suggestion that if you use the Monkee's theme, please use the full version, and not the chopped up version on the TV Themes disc.
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Okay...it's official: I'm begging for Hits of Heart, Volume 2. I heard "Heartless" on the radio the other day and am now obsessed...I want that song!! And I'd really like to have some of these others all on one disc...so once again, my suggestions:
1. Never 2. Alone 3. All I Wanna Do is Make Love to You 4. What About Love? 5. If Looks Could Kill 6. Even It Up 7. Heartless 8. Bebe Le Strange
Alternate selections include "Dog & Butterfly," and "Secret."
Posts: 386 | From: Santa Rosa, CA, USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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I'll second "Shades Of Gray" by the Monkees and would like to add "Listen To The Band". Also, "Joanne" by Michael Nesmith charted in the 70's. Posts: 235 | From: Plano, TX | Registered: Apr 1999
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Right on, Alayne! I would add one more -- "What Am I Doin' Hangin' Round"...
A side note: "Joanne" was performed by Michael Nesmith and the First National Band. (At least that's what it says on my 'ol 45...) Something to remember just in case you're asked on "Who Wants to be a Millionaire"...