posted
Ever been called up to sing on karaoke night only to find that the backing track on the karaoke is bad quality or otherwise different from the original song. There will always be subtle differences when recreating a song but sometimes things like the key or tempo are changed. This probably doesn't bother most people but I have perfect pitch and it confuses me when it's different and takes me longer to re-adjust.
I remember one time my friend put her name down to sing Elkie Brooks "Pearl's a singer". This was to the Sunfly backing track, and it would appear that rather than make it like the original, the Sunfly people decided to "sex it up" in their own way. Go to the Sunfly website and you can listen to a sample of it. Then compare it with the Zoom offering, which is almost identical to the original. My friend was so taken aback by that dodgy backing track she daren't sing the song again, despite me getting the Zoom version for the KJ.
But... it gets better! Or worse, in fact. Yours truly was called up to sing Johnny Nash's "I can see clearly now". Before I go further, hum or listen to the original song to remind you how it goes. When you've done that, go to the Sunfly website and listen to how they think it sounds. Now imagine me up on stage in the crowded pub having to live through that. I would question whether the jokers that made that track (probably on a Friday afternoon) even listened to the original song first. Unless anyone actually recorded "I can see clearly now" to that arrangement, and someone on here can direct me to it. By the way, the track in the KJ's songbook was an Xtreme branded one, with the graphics in the SBI livery. The music was identical to Sunfly.
Anyone else had experiences like this? Oh and by the way, I'm not badmouthing karaoke manufacturers, just bad tracks. It so happens that I had many a bad experience with Sunfly tracks, but some are very good. Too much pot luck though. That's why I favour Sound Choice, Zoom and Sweet Georgia Brown - they are the most reliable to recreate tracks best like the original songs without playing around with them, and are the only three I've had a lot of experience with that I've yet to be let down by through poor tracks.
Posts: 22 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: May 2011
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posted
Sunfly sucked to the gills on most of their older recordings, they had some gems but not very many IMO. Their newer stuff is alot more tolerable. But no that version of Clearly did not sound anything like the original. SC was much better on that one. Disagree with SGB, most of their 'tracks' (too many to list) were IMO just like your experience with those 2 tracks. I have never heard a SGB track I actually liked.
posted
"I can see clearly now" may be a really bad version of the "Beat Cursaders" take on the song. But honestly I have never heard the version that Sunfly put out!
-------------------- Cheerleader for the efforts of Sound Choice Chartbuster and Stellar. Posts: 112 | From: Virginia | Registered: Nov 2010
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I wasn't aware that SC did a version of "I can see clearly now" - I will be sure to check that out, thanks for bringing it to my attention. The one I eventually settled for was the Music Maestro version - SC is bound to be better. Sunfly's version is dated 1996 - that doesn't seem to have been a great year for them - the remainder of the tracks sound like they were done with a cheap MIDI device. But as Lonman says, their latest offerings are far better. Am I right in thinking SF are now affiliated with Zoom? Zoom's tracks have always been better quality so that may have something to do with it.
As for SGB, They did a very good version of Ernie K-Doe's "Mother-in-law", possibly even better than Sound Choice's, and that one is pretty good too.
Posts: 22 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Thunder: "I can see clearly now" may be a really bad version of the "Beat Cursaders" take on the song. But honestly I have never heard the version that Sunfly put out!
quote:Originally posted by Lord Burnstrum: Am I right in thinking SF are now affiliated with Zoom? Zoom's tracks have always been better quality so that may have something to do with it.
Zoom has alot of stinkers as well, but no they are not affiliated. Completely different tracks when the same titles are compared side by side.
quote:As for SGB, They did a very good version of Ernie K-Doe's "Mother-in-law", possibly even better than Sound Choice's, and that one is pretty good too.
SGB does have a handful of diamonds in the rough. But not very many.
posted
I don't believe there's any collusion between Sunfly and Zoom, but ANY of the Legends discs are firmly in Sunfly's camp.
-------------------- Taking piracy out of karaoke and putting it where it belongs: On the high seas, yarr... Posts: 30 | From: La Grande, OR, USA, Earth | Registered: Apr 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Thunder: "I can see clearly now" may be a really bad version of the "Beat Cursaders" take on the song. But honestly I have never heard the version that Sunfly put out!
LOL it sounds like they just used I Can't Help Myself (Sugar Pie Honey Bunch) by the Four Tops for the music on that one!
-------------------- Cheerleader for the efforts of Sound Choice Chartbuster and Stellar. Posts: 112 | From: Virginia | Registered: Nov 2010
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-------------------- Cheerleader for the efforts of Sound Choice Chartbuster and Stellar. Posts: 112 | From: Virginia | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Lonman: Zoom has alot of stinkers as well, but no they are not affiliated. Completely different tracks when the same titles are compared side by side.
Karaoke.cc offers both Zoom and Sunfly tracks for download. And there's a message on the main Zoom website saying "Why wait? Get the latest karaoke tracks now from Zoom’s own download website at Karaoke.cc (mp3+g format). Sunfly tracks are also available now. If you just want the backing music without lyrics, then use iTunes or Amazon mp3 downloads." Seems a bit odd if they are still rival companies with daggers drawn.
quote:SGB does have a handful of diamonds in the rough. But not very many.
Then maybe I've just discovered the "right" tracks out of a catalogue of baddies. I also have disc SGB56 and in my opinion all tracks are good, although I'll admit some are better than others. This is the disc that has the forementioned "Mother-in-law" and "I only have eyes for you" by Flamingos, both very great quality tracks, especially with the backing vocals.
Posts: 22 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Thunder: LOL it sounds like they just used I Can't Help Myself (Sugar Pie Honey Bunch) by the Four Tops for the music on that one!
When I sang it I thought my KJ had put on Fontella Bass's "Rescue me" by mistake. Then I saw the lyrics and thought "Oh $#!+"
Posts: 22 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: May 2011
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posted
I have bought some Sunfly disc for songs I can't get anywhere else. And I started buying Zoom but gave up on them pretty quikly because I didn't really like the overall quality I think they compare favorably with Top Tunes but that is another one I wasn't really impressed by either.
All manus make some stinkers from time to time some more in one genre than another some just lousy swipe timing or incorrect lyrics. All of these things came be over come if you know the song but when the music is just bad or off to begin with there ain't no fixing that. Way back in the laser disc days I went to someone elses show and asked to sing Eric Clapton's "Wonderful Tonight" I don't know what the brand of disc he had but the song wasn't even reconizable as Wonderful Tonight, the words were close though, like the Sunfly version of "I Can See Clearly Now".
-------------------- Cheerleader for the efforts of Sound Choice Chartbuster and Stellar. Posts: 112 | From: Virginia | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Lonman: Zoom has alot of stinkers as well, but no they are not affiliated. Completely different tracks when the same titles are compared side by side.
Karaoke.cc offers both Zoom and Sunfly tracks for download. And there's a message on the main Zoom website saying "Why wait? Get the latest karaoke tracks now from Zoom’s own download website at Karaoke.cc (mp3+g format). Sunfly tracks are also available now. If you just want the backing music without lyrics, then use iTunes or Amazon mp3 downloads." Seems a bit odd if they are still rival companies with daggers drawn.
Nah just because they are both available at the same custom type site, doesn't mean they are affiliated. Alot of sites offer both companies. selectatrack.com is another.
quote:SGB does have a handful of diamonds in the rough. But not very many.
Then maybe I've just discovered the "right" tracks out of a catalogue of baddies. I also have disc SGB56 and in my opinion all tracks are good, although I'll admit some are better than others. This is the disc that has the forementioned "Mother-in-law" and "I only have eyes for you" by Flamingos, both very great quality tracks, especially with the backing vocals. [/QUOTE] I have nothing else to compare those particular tracks with so they sounded alright to me. But I wouldn't even consider listing probably 90+% of their tracks if other versions were available. I only have 3 SGB discs in my selection - and those were only because they were given to me.
quote:Originally posted by Thunder: I have bought some Sunfly disc for songs I can't get anywhere else. And I started buying Zoom but gave up on them pretty quikly because I didn't really like the overall quality I think they compare favorably with Top Tunes but that is another one I wasn't really impressed by either.
All manus make some stinkers from time to time some more in one genre than another some just lousy swipe timing or incorrect lyrics. All of these things came be over come if you know the song but when the music is just bad or off to begin with there ain't no fixing that. Way back in the laser disc days I went to someone elses show and asked to sing Eric Clapton's "Wonderful Tonight" I don't know what the brand of disc he had but the song wasn't even reconizable as Wonderful Tonight, the words were close though, like the Sunfly version of "I Can See Clearly Now".
Reminds me of Music Maestro's version of CCR - Born On The Bayou, I sang that at someones show & had to walk off stage not even a third into the song it was so horridly done. Couldn't even tell what the song was supposed to be. But then most of MM stuff was like that IMO.
posted
Yes, I too am somewhat disappointed with Music Maestro. The only track of theirs I regularly sing to is Lee Dorsey's "Ya ya", of which their version is okay once you get over the wrong keg signature, tempo and poor quality brass section. Their version of "Ohio Platers : Fire" is quite decent, although SBI's version is better. (I've yet to hear SC's version, but I would imagine that is the best. Sunfly's version is almost an exact clone SBI's but the backing track fades out 3/4 of the way through!). The rest of MM seems to be on par with early Sunfly - sounding like a cheap MIDI job.
Posts: 22 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: May 2011
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posted
So... karaoke.cc is not affiliated with Zoom in spite of what's written on the main Zoom website?
Posts: 22 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Lord Burnstrum: So... karaoke.cc is not affiliated with Zoom in spite of what's written on the main Zoom website?
I never stated that. I said Sunfly & Zoom are not affiliated, just because they are sold on the same site. SBI does now create the music for Sunfly so that would stand to reason why the SBI & Sunfly track of the song you heard sounded identical.
posted
This is an interesting thread, even though most of the songs I've done in karaoke haven't fit any of the scenarios described. Most of us agree though, the majority of tracks made by Sweet Georgia Brown have the poorest quality ever known to the world of karaoke.
However, I have uncovered a couple of cases where Sound Choice were a bit dodgy with the quality of their tracks. One time I requested the Sound Choice version of "Are You Jimmy Ray?" from Jimmy Ray and the KJ told me when I was brought up to sing it that he was gonna give me the Pop Hits Monthly version instead because in his opinion, PHM gave the song a more dancy mix while SC basically took out all the bounciness that existed in the original. I eventually checked out the SC version myself to spot the differences and I personally found Sound Choice's take on the track to be the better version, because even though their rendition of the song is a bit flat and the ending got incredibly messed up due to SC's "no fade out" rule, the onscreen lyrics were more understandable (I thought the line "With Aretha, I'm a dreamer" made better sense in the pre-chorus than the words PHM chose to print out, "Widow reaper, I'm a dreamer").
I've also noticed a Sound Choice track that had a similar situation to what I had mentioned about "Are You Jimmy Ray?". The SC version of "88 Lines About 44 Women" from The Nails has an unusually jazzy mix in comparison to the original song. In fact, even though Sound Choice has the most quality tracks as a karaoke company, I've found that the Ameri-Sing version of "88 Lines About 44 Women" (which was later bootlegged by Rebel Sync), actually sounds more like the original than the recreation that was put together by SC. The Sound Choice version is still what I'd choose for singing that song though, because the women's names that are addressed in the onscreen lyrics are printed more accurately than what Ameri-Sing used, though SC doesn't have the vocal hums that are between the verses built-in on their mix of the song.
Posts: 270 | Registered: Jul 2009
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Exactly, no company can have 100% perfection. I use (we had a vote one night between versions) a Pop Hits version of Return Of The Mack over the SC because it's a lot fuller sounding. I also prefer Dangerous version of Bon Jovi Runaway over any others as well. But overall - if there was a song that was released on SC & any other brand, in a blind buy i'd P/U the SC version first everytime. They do have a higher % of hits over the clunkers over any other manu.
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If you ever want to hear perfection........... If you ever get the oportunity to listen to SC's recreation of 99 Luft Balloon (the german version) it is awesome and you really can't tell any difference between it and Nina's origional version (they did it for some movie work and I don't think it is available as a karaoke release).
-------------------- Cheerleader for the efforts of Sound Choice Chartbuster and Stellar. Posts: 112 | From: Virginia | Registered: Nov 2010
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One stinker that I know from Sound Choice is a song called "Always The Last To Know" by Del Amitri. Whoever was in charge of the production of that song decided to do his own thing or the musicians are just plain idiots especially the keyboardist. The keyboard riff didn't sound anything like the original. I had to be content with the Sunfly version which was almost identical to the original version. That song changed my opinion about Sound Choice a bit. I would have given Sound Choice as a karaoke manufacturer an 8/10 like Zoom but after I heard that song I can only give 7.5.
Another stupid song from Sound Choice but to a much lesser degree is "Do They Know It's Christmas" by Band Aid. Whoever the drummer was on that song took the liberty to change the drum riff at the beginning is an idiot. I had got the Zoom version and it was almost perfect. I never had a stinker from Zoom although I must admit their catalogue is less comprehensive than Sound Choice. I even complained about the backing vocals on Joe McElderry's version of The Climb at one stage and management at Zoom tweaked the backing vocals and send a new mp3+G file for me via email. That's how good the service is at Zoom.
Posts: 283 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
Yes Sound Choice has some stinkers in their mix both musically and lyrically, but I will take them 5:1 over Zoom as far as the ratio of good to bad recordings go. With Sunfly I put that upwards to somewhere are 40:1. Just had way to much total junk from Sunfly.
I bought maybe 10 Zoom Artist Disc before I just gave up on them for useable material.
You want to hear bad music listen to the Zoom Blues Brothers disc, the Elvis disc, the Roy Orbison disc, the Tom Jones Disc (how can you screw up Delilah)and Blondie.
Do they use nothing but a keyboard to produce all of their music, if that is what they are using I would suggest maybe at least spending enough to purchase a Korg Triton Studio 88 it at least has a decent sound.
-------------------- Cheerleader for the efforts of Sound Choice Chartbuster and Stellar. Posts: 112 | From: Virginia | Registered: Nov 2010
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I got some Blues Brothers tracks by Zoom and I thought they were alright, pretty good actually. Most definitely not stinkers. I was referring to stinkers which I have never encountered with Zoom in my experience.. In regard to jazz style big band tracks Pocket Songs got to be the best (which Just Tracks I think is one of their subsidiary companies as well). They use a real horn section and not synth keyboards. They are the best in the business in this area of music.
I wouldn't put Sound Choice 40:1 over Sunfly today. Their music has greatly improved since SBI did their music.
One down side to Sunfly and Sound Choice lyrics is they don't have roll down lyrics because you always have to wait for a new screen for the next batch of lyrics to come. For some fast songs this is not good if you don't know the lyrics well enough. Zoom and SBI wins hands down in this department. Also I have never experienced Zoom screwing up with lyrics but then again I am a recent convert to Zoom so I don't know their very early stuff.
Posts: 283 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
Yep, the lyric scrolling is definitely a downside for me when it comes to using Sound Choice, Sunfly, and Chartbuster. However, while Pop Hits Monthly (and Top Hits Monthly when they were around) don't have quality audio, the way they scroll the lyrics makes up for it.
I have always considered Sound Choice to be the best brand, but if any manufacturer comes close, it is SBI, because they possess the best of both worlds when it comes to quality audio and great lyric scrolling (though I think it's better to read the lyrics on Sound Choice tracks, just because the words being swiped on the screen come in the most beautiful sets of colours I've ever seen on karaoke monitors).
Posts: 270 | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
Yes that may be part of it for me because what I have from Zoom and Sunfly is their earlier stuff and I simply couldn't get over it. If you have the Blues Brothers in anything other than Zoom compare them and you will see what I mean.
I run a small studio and we do a lot of stuff on the keyboard and drum machines, I can tell the difference between live and memorex! LOL
-------------------- Cheerleader for the efforts of Sound Choice Chartbuster and Stellar. Posts: 112 | From: Virginia | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
I've never really had an issue with the lyric wipes on Sound Choice because for the most part, they split the screens up in a way that makes sense if you aren't 100% sure of what the next line will be. I find quite often with Chartbuster they simply want to fill every screen, regardless of where a natural break might occur. Too often with them, you have to start singing the top line the instant it comes on the screen.
I like Pop Hits and their refreshing the top half of the screen when you get to the bottom half, but it would be nice if they put an "instrumental break" and count down bar in there as well instead of simply throwing the next line on screen.
posted
I agree, Zoom and SBI are the best for graphics. Zoom gives a running countdown time in instrumentals, while SBI uses a series of asterisks to guide you back in. Both use word-by-word scrolling and show the next few lyrics a good couple of seconds before you have to sing them. The only thing with Zoom is all the words are in uppercase, which for me makes them a bit harder to read, but a good bold text style is used, as with SBI. Disregarding the bad experience some people have had with their backing tracks, Sweet Georgia Brown are good graphically, using word to word scrolling. Their use of top and bottom of the screen can make it easier to see where you are, even when they show the next lyric too early. Sunfly appear to toy with different graphic styles from time to time, but always seem to go for page by page scrolling, which can be problematic if like me you pick up the tune way before the lyric and are a bit hazy on the next line. Some SF tracks only use two lines at the bottom of the screen, which is infuriating with very fast songs. Sound Choice also uses page by page scrolling but so far I've never had a problem with it. They tend to refresh the page early enough for you to get your bearings.
Posts: 22 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: May 2011
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posted
One karaoke manufacturer that has no receive a mention on this board is Music Factory. I like them but I think they are dead now. They made good backing tracks although their graphics are not the best and most appealing to the eyes. I was searching for a Walt Disney song from the cartoon movie "The Jungle Book" called "I Wanna Be Like You (The Monkey Song)" by Louis Prima and their version was hands down the best. This is a hard track to make and Music Factory did the complete version with all the instruments including some of the tricky instruments. I don't have lots of tracks from them but I have never encountered a stinker from them either lyrically or musically.
Posts: 283 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2008
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I have never had any Music Factory dis, so I really can't comment on them, I am just sorry I missed out on them!
-------------------- Cheerleader for the efforts of Sound Choice Chartbuster and Stellar. Posts: 112 | From: Virginia | Registered: Nov 2010
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@sabathiel - Disney themselves released a most excellent version of "I Wanna Be Like You" (along with one of my faves, "Never Smile At A Crocodile")
I'm a firm fan of SC's stuff, by and large, but there are two songs that always chafe me: 1) "Regulate" by Warren G & Nate Dogg - they cut off some of the best part of the song. The winner for this song goes to Mr. Entertainer - they have a full-length version, and their split-screen method for duets is innovative. If I try my hand at authoring, I'll be sure to use that method for duets. (although, I'd like to have an actual demarcation line for the hard of thinking..) 2) "Book Of Love" by the Monotones - ugh. THIS is probably SC's worst.track.evar. I'm a harmony snob, so this song shouldn't bother me- there's a complete absence of harmony in it*.
*-sarcasm -not just for blogs anymore.
-------------------- Taking piracy out of karaoke and putting it where it belongs: On the high seas, yarr... Posts: 30 | From: La Grande, OR, USA, Earth | Registered: Apr 2008
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quote:Originally posted by RC the DJ (again): [QB] @sabathiel - Disney themselves released a most excellent version of "I Wanna Be Like You" (along with one of my faves, "Never Smile At A Crocodile")
Yep can't get better than the actual soundtrack recording!
quote:Originally posted by RC the DJ (again): @sabathiel - Disney themselves released a most excellent version of "I Wanna Be Like You" (along with one of my faves, "Never Smile At A Crocodile")
I was attracted to the idea of purchasing this Disney produced CD-G after hearing this and went to eBay to look for the disc but I accidentally saw a track listing from a website. I noticed the track length for "I Wanna Be Like You" is only 2:20 minutes and decided that this cannot possibly as good as the Music Factory version which was nearly 4 minutes. The things I am looking for in this track is the scat intro and the full scat at the end. Also the full instrumental parts in the middle of the song twice. Most importantly the mouth trumpet solo during the instrumental break. These parts are the parts that makes the song great because of its jazz instrumentation. The Zoom version I got is also only 2:20 minutes and leaves the singer to do the mouth trumpet solo yourself. Other than that it has a great backing track but without the full scat solo at the end and the other instrumental parts this won't do for me for a performance. The SBI version that I got is of inferior musical backing track and cuts the solo scat at the end short (it cuts maybe 70% of the scat). Also the scat was already on the track by a backing vocalist so it is redundant to scat over that even if only briefly.
So all in all I decided to be content with my Music Factory version which I still think is the best version of this song because it is the full length movie version with all the solos and instrumentals and very good musical backing track. This includes Mowgli's voice in the middle during the conversation with King Louie.
Posts: 283 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
If anyone is curious as to what the Music Factory's version of "I Wan'na Be Like You (The Monkey Song)" is like you can download the mp3+G file from venuevj.com which sells Sound Choice karaoke files and Music Factory files as well. Here is the link to the song which you can get for $1.49 and tell me if the Disney version is still better than this version:
posted
SC cut out loads of "Freddie's dead" by Curtis Mayfield. It's a good track but I don't like it when they overly abbridge the tracks. As far as I know SC is the only manufacturer to make this song for karaoke.
Posts: 22 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: May 2011
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posted
Sc mentioned in the past that they will produce the version that they received a copy of. So if the song was abridged, it was probably because the version that they got was the AM radio version.
The knocks that I have against SBI is that their font is too small and, when there are lyrics during a song's intro, they do not display those lyrics but instead have their own vocals. Otherwise, it is not a deal breaker for me.
Posts: 1026 | From: San Francisco, CA, USA | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
Font size has never been an issue for me since my local KJs use reasonably large monitors. The trouble is, especially with older Sunfly tracks, small text using a fraction of the screen (no more than two lines at a time) and page by page scrolling, can be very furstrating with fast songs. SC uses decent sized text and makes good use of the screen, but the page by page rather than word by word scrolling is a short coming. Whilst I am pleased that they have made songs by Ryan Adams (possibly the only manufacturer to do so other than Kwizoke?) this scrolling method is going to make the very fast paced "New York, New York" even more of a struggle than usual.
Posts: 22 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: May 2011
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posted
Going back to backing tracks, Music Maestro appear to share SoundChoice and Zoom's no fade policy, but unlike them, take less pride in the quality of their tracks. While both SC and ZM have produced some uncomfortable abrupt stops to avoid fading, the overall quality of the tracks have always redeemed them in my experience. I haven't had much experience with MM, but I've had quite a few howlers from them. What I will say for MM, they have produced a few tracks I had been searching high and low for which no-one else does, and to be fair all these have been alright. But out of their tracks also produced by other manufacturers, I'm struggling to think of any where the MM version would be my preferred choice.
Posts: 22 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: May 2011
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posted
I've never found a 'preferred' MM track over another. I have found several ok versions that get sung on occasion (mostly country) that I don't think I will bother replacing, but have several more that I have needed to replace in the past due to being so bad.
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