posted
I agree with many of those. I was just thinking about this not too long ago & figured my top 5 picks of all time best (influential) albums would be (in no particular order):
Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin IV Van Halen - Van Halen Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon Fleetwood Mac - Rumours AC/DC - Back In Black
Clash - London Calling Beatles - Revolver Led Zeppelin - II Queen - News Of The World Elvis Costello - My Aim Is True
I don't know, but to me, I like Zep II and Revolver better than Zep IV or Sgt. Pepper. I know why Zep IV is way up there - Stairway (I know the other songs are good too; but Zep II just seems to have more for me.)
Posts: 2246 | From: Palmdale, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
Well this isn't news about a big star, but I want to share this with ya, ya see I got a phone call Sunday night from Danny Lee a very good friend of mine thanking me for doing his MySpace http://www.myspace.com/dannyleesingersongwriter and he was thanking me cause that song Dear Jesus is getting alot of attention right now in Nashville and he has been contacted by Nashville Onstage to perform this month and before I rearranged my schedule I had to confirm this with Nashville OnStage and here was there reply:
Yes Danny Lee is to appear on the show March 17th. I have not added the artist on the calendar as of yet.
Debbie Simms
I don't know where this is gonna go but I know he's pretty happy and I know I'm pretty proud of him.
Posts: 45 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Jun 2006
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THERE are the Stooges, from Ann Arbor, Mich., accidental inventors of punk, in the summer of 1970, on nationwide television. And there’s Iggy Pop, their singer: bare torso and sausage-casing jeans, silver gloves, dog collar, chipped front tooth.
The song is “TV Eye,” and they have gotten wickedly good at their primitive groove — as good as they will ever get. Iggy weaves in and out of the beat: one second borne by the music, one second abstracted from it. Suddenly he does a violent knock-kneed dance and slips into the audience, gone except for his wounded-animal noises.
“There goes Iggy, right into the crowd,” says the host of the special NBC program “Midsummer Rock.” It’s Jack Lescoulie, an announcer on the “Today” show, the Al Roker of his day. In his late 50s he looks like the anti-Stooge: professional, good-natured, well fed, well insured.
After a commercial break we see Iggy crawling on the stage. “Since we broke away for our message, Iggy has been in the crowd and out again three different times,” Mr. Lescoulie says. “They seem to be enjoying it, and so does he.” The camera centers on a scrum of teenagers looking downward. Iggy surfaces, hoists himself up so he’s standing on shoulders, and remains aloft, pointing forward like the prow of a ship. Next he’s scooping something out of a jar, wiping it on himself, flinging it around. “That’s peanut butter,” Mr. Lescoulie says, incredulous.
I’M going to be straight,” Iggy Pop said recently, talking about that film, which circulated for years in certain circles and is now of course available on YouTube. “I was more than a little high.”
He was often more than a little high. But these days Iggy Pop, a k a Jim Osterberg, is ferociously grounded. He swims and practices a form of tai chi, and his only vice, he says, is a few glasses of Bordeaux. Coming up on his 60th birthday, he bears signs of age: creased and ropy, he limps from cartilage lost in his right hip, and can’t hear well over ambient noise.
For the first time in 34 years, however, he and the members of his onetime band are putting out a new record: “The Weirdness,” which will be released by Virgin on March 6. (Careful historians will say 37 years: this is the version of the Stooges that made “Fun House,” around the time of the peanut butter concert — the brothers Ron and Scott Asheton on guitar and drums and Steve Mackay on tenor saxophone.)
In the intervening years they too have changed. As has the world around them.
Once upon a time Iggy and the Stooges defined themselves against the Lescoulies of the world: they were outrageous, truculent, elemental. But these days it seems there are more Iggys than Lescoulies. Everyone’s subversive, everyone’s perverse. What can the Stooges be, if not a band that defines itself against the rest of the world? What happens when they’re old and experienced, and punk attitudes, already in their third generation, have infiltrated so many corners of the culture? How do they climb back into that frame of mind?
BREAKING up” doesn’t exist anymore. A band only has extended periods of downtime.
The Stooges’ downtime was a little more down than others. Ron Asheton used to say that Iggy had become too self-involved for the Stooges to play together again. Scott Asheton pursued Iggy at various points over the last 10 years, and the answer was always no. “I wasn’t going to go backwards,” Iggy explains now. “And I wasn’t going to do anything to what I thought was a great band.”
At some point, however, the incentives just became too powerful: prime gigs at the best rock festivals in the world, both the best-paid and the most creatively run. Plus, what else was there to do? Scott Asheton, who lives in Florida, had been working in construction. His brother, Ron, had been in a series of bands that hadn’t made a stir, still living in his boyhood home on the west side of Ann Arbor, where the band had its first rehearsals. (All three went to Ann Arbor High together.)
Iggy needed the Ashetons just as much. “We managed to stay in a band together during a protracted period of failure,” he said of those early days, gigging and making records and living in a filthy house. “No rewards. No approval. No money. These are really the only guys I know. That doesn’t mean, ‘Oh, shucks, I like them so much.’ I mean, we lived together.”
Besides, “I’d hit a wall playing alone, in my solo music,” he said. “I was just at wit’s end about what to do — bands, songwriting, everything.”
He invited the Ashetons to work on a few songs with him for his album “Skull Ring” in 2003. A week after they convened, the Coachella Valley Music & Arts Festival floated the idea of a Stooges reunion show. (They did the show; Iggy wouldn’t say how much they were offered, though he does say that the Stooges now get paid much better than he did for concerts during his solo career.) And the bassist Mike Watt came on board, once of the Minutemen, to take the place of Dave Alexander, who died in 1975.
Before they all headed into the studio, Mr. Watt flew to Florida to go over the new songs, and Iggy gave him a lesson about finding his “inner stupidity.”
They were practicing “She Took My Money.” (“She took my money/And didn’t say thank you/She took my money/And immediately banked it.”) Mr. Watt has a strong melodic style on the bass, but Iggy leaned on him to play with a pick instead of his fingers, and to stay with the backbone of the song, even if it meant sounding as dumb, he explained, as the guy singing the bass notes in a doo-wop group. “Play the content,” Iggy urged. “As soon as one of us isn’t playing that, we don’t have a song.”
It might have seemed like square advice, but Mr. Watt took it in stride. “Don’t get me wrong,” he said the other day. “There wouldn’t be punk without the Stooges. But after punk, things changed. And they come from the ’60s, so there’s a different sensibility there. Iggy just said: ‘Let go, Watt. Let go of ego. Learn from the source.’ ”
Over the 70 or so shows the group has played since 2003, it has developed a routine, including a repertory of 14 songs from the earlier albums “The Stooges” and “Fun House.” At least once Iggy writhes on top of the bass amp; artfully he keeps his pants in danger of falling down; he chants “I am you” during the free-jazz portion of the song “Fun House.”
You can’t be prepared for the power of a Stooges show; it still baffles you, makes you a Lescoulie. Iggy juts his hip out like a bumper, skips and punches the air, dives into the audience. On the final night of the All Tomorrow’s Parties Festival, which the Stooges headlined in Minehead, England, in December, Iggy encouraged about 60 people to dance onstage, endangering the backline of amplifiers. And he practices his extraordinary physical vocabulary, tilting his shoulders and extending his arms above and behind his head. (Not insignificantly, he was a backstroker on the Ann Arbor High swim team.)
Afterward, backstage, Iggy let two glasses of wine last him 40 minutes. He was in a fine mood. “I sang about twice as hard as I usually do,” he marveled. “And I was worrying. A little voice was saying to me, ‘Do you sound too demented?’ You know, you don’t want to overdo it. It happens to any musician. If you want to do really well, sometimes you take it all on yourself. And that ain’t it. You’ve got to tone down to fit into the beauty of the percolation. This is all part of finding the stupidity, you know.”
IN October at Electrical Audio studios in Chicago the overall picture was of scheduled productivity. After the basic tracks for “The Weirdness” had been recorded, each band member was given his own day to make suggestions and additions. I came during Ron Asheton’s day, when he was tracking some extra guitar solos. The day before had been Steve Mackay’s day; Iggy thanked him with a bottle of very nice wine.
Around one another the three original Stooges communicate in shorthand. Iggy Pop, famous as a wildman and credible as a sage, is less well known as an organized type: a note taker, a list maker. He led the discussion on the fine points of each playback. Scott Asheton, a brooding figure who rarely left his chair, voiced a few reservations — “Too much solos sounds too amateurish,” he said at one point — and little else. (He was right, and more solos made it on to the record than probably should have.) Ron Asheton just confidently got his job done. After recording one screaming guitar overdub, he re-entered the control room. “Was I too obtuse?” he asked, feigning an epicene British accent. Nobody answered.
While recording, Iggy swam laps in the hotel pool every day before going to work at noon. During the recording of “Fun House” in 1970, by comparison, he dropped acid before each day’s session.
Still, Ron Asheton says the Iggy Pop of today is not altogether unfamiliar. “He’s more like the Jim I knew in the beginning,” Mr. Asheton said. (To old friends, Iggy is Jim.) “It’s like the better Jim times. When we first started hanging out, he didn’t smoke cigarettes. Jim and I were always more conservative, hesitant to drink, the last ones to smoke marijuana. When we got to Chicago, he had a piece of paper, and it said exactly what’s going to happen on every given day. He asks our opinion; we have a mutual pact that we all have to agree. I love that he deals with the schedules. I know that he needs to do that. He’s clear about what he wants to do.”
The resulting album takes pains to remind you that the Stooges are authentic, that their simplicity and roughness isn’t just a casual disposition, or a consequence of being messed up, but a dogma. But “The Weirdness” sounds nothing like “Fun House.” Gone are the medium and slow tempos, the glorious cosmic drone of old songs like “Dirt” and “Ann”; the band “wants less uncertainties,” in Iggy’s words, and in the process has shed half its old sound. It’s almost all fast and rough — almost a punk album, with the hard riffs and commitment to bashing that one wishes the Rolling Stones still had. The spirit is there, even when, in some cases, the songwriting is not.
Its engineer is Steve Albini, who has become known for his own dogma of simplicity: analog equipment, full-band live takes, no filters and reverb. The Ashetons’ drums and guitars are big, and Iggy, relatively speaking, is small. He pushes his voice, yelping the lyrics, which are typically zen-mundane. Stooges songs used to be about boredom, sex and hanging out. Now they are about boredom, aging, money, sex, greed and hanging out.
The best example is “ATM.” Most of its words have one syllable; it is a smart-stupid rendering of a cash machine as a symbol for money, efficiency, and aging. And it has a provocative aside. “The leaders of rock don’t rock,” he sings at one point. “This bothers me quite a lot.”
He wouldn’t tell me who he was talking about specifically, he said, but he believes that the rock business is too big, run by people who know nothing about it.
Wasn’t that always the case?
“No,” he said, decisively. “The people I met at the top in 1972 tended to be crackpots from the fringes of the lowest parts of the entertainment industry. And they tended to know their stuff. Jac Holzman” — the president of Elektra, the Stooges’ old label — “was a former record-store owner in the Village. The guy who ran the very biggest talent agency in New York had ties to the pinball industry, I guess you could say. They could really screw an artist up, but they weren’t just someone from Legal.”
He started warming to the subject: the real subject of the song, he said, was “a fairly loosely aggregated industry-slash-palace guard that has coalesced around the corpus of something called rock, and that something has grown to have something to do with units of digital information, and filling a parking lot.” He paused. “It’s impressive. It’s brutally compelling, sometimes. But it’s not enjoyable.”
He says he can hear moments of wildness in the old Stooges record that he knows he can’t reach anymore. “But some of that’s youth.”
“And the time period,” said Scott Asheton. “What was goin’ on.”
“So, you know,” Iggy responded. “I don’t worry about it too much. Other people are going to do plenty of yakety-yak on that subject for me. Who needs another comment from me?”
How is it to make a new Stooges record without drugs?
“You know, I don’t feel the difference,” he said, thoughtfully. “You?” he asked Scott Asheton.
“Ah, no,” he replied, turned 180 degrees away, smoking a cigarette.
“I feel just like I did when I was stoned,” Iggy continued. “I feel the same. The thing is, it’s wonderful to know we can’t take them,” he said, and smiled crisply.
Posts: 4262 | From: Charlotte, N.C., USA | Registered: Oct 1999
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How would you like to get this email from your college kid, the one you're shelling out tens of thousands of dollars for to pay for his education?
"Hi Mom: The recording industry says I owe them $3,000 or they're going to sue me! Help!"
Help, indeed. As I wrote in a previous post, the Recording Industry Association of America is getting tough on illegal music downloads, and taking aim where free downloads are as common as Frisbees, college campuses.
The RIAA has sent letters to 50 Ohio University students telling them each to pay $3,000 for illegally downloaded music files to avoid lawsuits accusing them of stealing songs from the Internet, the AP reports. The association, which is stepping up its legal action on college campuses, has already sued more than 18,000 computers users since 2003, and more than 1,000 of them were computer users at 130 universities.
As Chris Null notes in his post on Steve Jobs' stand against Digital Rights Management (DRM), unwieldy restrictions on the use of purchased digital music, the recording industry association's litigious ways are going to destroy any remaining goodwill the music industry has with its customers.
Music services such as Ruckus and Napster are offering free music downloads while kids are in college to try to stem the flow of pirated songs on college campuses. But they come with restrictions that irk college students. The Ruckus songs must stay on your computer to be free; there's a fee to transfer them to MP3 players. And Napster offers free downloads to students—but the music is theirs to keep only while they're in school. If you want to keep a collection amassed during college, then you'll need to pay Napster in the end.
Seems the music industry's DRM approach is hitting a wall, but what's the answer? Maybe Amazon's rumored approach to sell unrestricted songs for a buck is the best shot. What do you think?
"Wal-Mart Spins Eagles Digital Giveaway, Retail Exclusive
Wal-Mart is now offering a free download of the upcoming Eagles single, "How Long," part of a larger retail exclusive. The gratis download is being delivered to those that pre-purchase the new Eagles album, Long Road Out of Eden, which streets in October.
The album, the first studio project from the band in 28 years, is being carried exclusively in North America by Wal-Mart and its warehouse division, Sam's Club. "The Eagles are one of the greatest music bands in history and we are honored to bring to all fans this long-awaited studio album," said Gary Severson, Wal-Mart's senior vice president of Entertainment.
Wal-Mart is also concocting a special Eagles mini-site (walmart.com/eagles), one that will include videos, tour dates, photographs, and other assets. Additionally, fans can also purchase the album online, in either digital or disc formats.
The exclusive is a major grab for Wal-Mart, and follows a similar tie-up involving Garth Brooks. Other mega-retail deals involving superstars are becoming more commonplace, and represent the growing distribution independence that established artists enjoy.
The Eagles have now sold more than 120 million albums worldwide."
Posts: 4262 | From: Charlotte, N.C., USA | Registered: Oct 1999
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This is a music industry newsletter/blog I subscribe to, written by a very funny (and typically profane) guy who knows the history and the insiders of the music biz for the past 30 years.
(I don't have his permission to reprint this, but, after you've read him for a bit, you would understand that he wouldn't expect that on the internet.)
I would urge anyone interested in learning more about the type of music that helped build this business, where the music business has been, how it grew up, and the direction it's heading into, to subscribe to his newsletter.
BUT... if you're faint of heart or don't want to be exposed to profanity and very intense opinions, you should pass on this.
And today's nugget...
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_____________________________________________ From: Bob Lefsetz [mailto:bob@lefsetz.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 4:44 PM Subject: How Long
Thank god the Eagles' fans are not tech/web-savvy.
First lesson, OWN YOUR URL!
There's a story here, as to why the URL is http://www.eaglesband.com/, not eagles.com, or theeagles.com (sure, the band hates the "the", but most people don't know this). Yes, a search will turn up the right site, but will it turn up the right MySpace page?
No.
My Google search on "MySpace Eagles" didn't turn up the band's MySpace link on the first PAGE of results. I could go further, but who goes further?
But I know the band's got a MySpace page, I was there once before. So I search on "MySpace Eagles band music". And the site comes up. It's http://www.myspace.com/eaglesmusic. Now, that's so far from intuitive, maybe that's why the band's new song "How Long" only has 33,333 plays, even though it's been available for almost a week.
So, does this mean the URL sucks? Or that the target audience doesn't know to go to MySpace to hear the song? Or that no one cares about a new Eagles record.
I think the target demo does care about the music, they're just not hip to the fact that you can hear all bands' new music on MySpace. But, I also believe plays are reduced because of the bad URL.
If you go to http://eagles.com/, you get a Network Solutions page. Was the name really unavailable? The Eagles couldn't afford to buy it? Irving Azoff couldn't INTIMIDATE someone into coughing it up? As for http://myspace.com/eagles, it's owned by someone named "Jack". You couldn't make him an offer?
I mean help yourself out. If you're too stupid to own the URL of an almost forty year old band, at least come up with a URL that makes intuitive sense, and pay someone to make it come to the top of Google results if anyone puts appropriate search terms in.
But it gets worse. The Eagles site has POP-UPS! Which are blocked by Firefox! And, although they appear in Safari, the QuickTime movie never loads.
How did this happen? Isn't anybody tech-savvy over at the management company? Didn't anybody think about the pop-ups being blocked? Didn't anybody test the site?
Utterly ridiculous.
If a boomer is too stupid to go to MySpace, or find the MySpace site, and can actually find the band's homepage, they expect to hear the new record. But they don't.
Don Henley is famously tech-averse. But he's only hurting himself here.
I do believe boomers are the last audience into physical product. That many want the CD. But plenty have iPods. And they'll pay for music at the iTunes Store. But "How Long" isn't available there. What, are we living in 1973? How long does a track have to be in the marketplace before you can BUY IT?
Well, maybe you need to go to Wal-Mart's site.
But if you go to the Wal-Mart page, if you're savvy enough to know that the band has made a deal with the mega-retailer and it's actually selling music online, you find pictures of everybody BUT the Eagles, and a site that's ultimately incompatible with Macs. Couldn't the band make a deal with Wal-Mart to sell this ONE track at the iTunes Store? Maybe cough up a few extra pennies to make it happen?
The band is trying to come back. But their digital strategy stinks.
As for the track itself... First time through, you're disappointed. You've waited all these years for THIS? A lightweight trifle? The most famous Eagles cut is not "Take It Easy", but "Desperado". The Eagles can come with a ballad, hell, "Love Will Keep Us Alive" was the big hit off of "Hell Freezes Over", not "Get Over It".
"How Long" grows on you with multiple plays. But does one even GET multiple plays of a boomer act anymore? Too much second-guessing results in a mistake.
Or else they're waiting for the second track for the killer ballad. Proving the band is living in the EIGHTIES!
You don't even get a second track most times today. You lead with your best. And, if "How Long" is their best, we've waited a long time for nothing.
posted
Picked up from the Digital Music News/Daily Snapshot.
Songs are like real estate - the good ones can be moneymakers for a long time.
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BMI Posts Record Revenue Totals, Artist Payouts
The recorded music industry has been suffering pronounced declines, thanks to an ever-shrinking CD. But other sectors of the music business are experiencing far different outcomes. Just recently, performance royalty collection society BMI posted record revenues and artist payouts during its recent fiscal year. The company, a non-profit organization, raked $839 million in revenues for the year ending June 30th, according to information disclosed Tuesday. That allowed artist payouts of $732 million, a jump of eight percent over year-ago totals.
The group credited the results to an ever-expanding number of media outlets, a shift that generates more licensing opportunities. Revenues from cable, satellite radio and video offerings grew $11 million during the period, and BMI licensed nearly 500 new digital media properties over the span. BMI also credited a strong portfolio of songs, a critical factor for growth. "The dynamic growth and continued popularity of the BMI catalog have made these outstanding financial results possible at a time of unprecedented change in the media and entertainment business," said BMI president and chief executive Del Bryant. More traditional outlets like restaurants and hotels also showed strong gains. __________________________________________________
Posts: 4262 | From: Charlotte, N.C., USA | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
This is from tomorrow's NY Times. Not earthshaking news, not even minor news. It's just that the Four Seasons were among my very first memories of rock and roll on a transistor radio in the dark as I was going to sleep - "Sherry" and "Walk Like A Man" right next to "Then He Kissed Me", "Be My Baby", "Spanish Harlem", "He's So Fine", "I Will Follow Him", "You Send Me", "Cupid", "Under The Boardwalk", "Up On The Roof", "Stand By Me", etc.
These were all after the initial explsion and pioneer work of Chuck Berry, Elvis, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, Fats Domino, and the rest, but before the Beatles, Stones, British Invasion, Dylan, Byrds, folk-rock, etc. It was in that five year period at the end of the 50’s going into the 60’s when Elvis was in the Army. One hit wonders and Phil Spector dominated in a landscape that featured one-hit wonders, over-the-top melodrama of the teen tragedy genre, and the occasional mysterious sounding minor-key R&B/bayou/blues forms (“Sally Go Round The Roses”) that influenced Tony Joe White, John Fogerty and others.
Bob Gaudio and Bob Crewe co-wrote and co-produced most/all of the Four Seasons hits. (Bob Crewe had already produced lots of Pop hits, including "Mr. Sandman", and went on to produce all the Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels hits, as well as Sugarloaf and many others.) They crafted a sound based on Spector's Wall Of Sound on top of street doo-wop tight group singing, but with that otherworldly falsetto of Franki Valli.
Before I got older, before the Beatles and Dylan, then Hendrix, Zeppelin, Boston and others changed music forever, and before Frankie Valli became a cliché, this music was a combination of R&B and rock and roll, a mixture of black soul and white energy. It symbolizes what rock and roll was - a combination of black and white, that could only be produced in a country struggling to overcome it's past.
It was one of the heartbeats of all the music influences, and it was part of the bedrock that influenced all Rock/Pop/R&B music that came afer it. There is no Bruce Springsteen without the Four Seasons - not just because it's a Jersey thing - but because it was a music based on R&B and Soul, that incorporated rock and roll energy and form and powered by guitars.
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MUSIC Frankie Valli Is Back in Season
By ANTHONY DeCURTIS Published: September 23, 2007
FRANKIE VALLI sat amid the bustling lunch crowd at Patsy’s, the Midtown Italian restaurant he has patronized for more than 40 years, with the air of a man who knows that he is going to get exactly what he wants. He had performed the night before, but, wearing a white jacket over a dark shirt, he seemed refreshed, relaxed. Mr. Valli dined at Patsy’s with his friend and idol Frank Sinatra back in the ’60s. Much has changed since then, but this restaurant, like Hemingway’s clean, well-lighted place, has remained a bastion, in Mr. Valli’s view, of lasting values in a modern world that often seems rickety.
A specially prepared bowl of minestrone was set before him by the chef. Mr. Valli let it cool for a moment, then tasted it. “Now this,” he said quietly, “is a great example of tender loving care.”
“This is a family operation,” he continued, “which means everybody from out front to the kitchen. These are all family recipes. This restaurant has been here forever.” And so, it sometimes seems, has Mr. Valli. He first became a star in 1962, when his group, the Four Seasons, soared to No. 1 on the strength of a perfect pop song called “Sherry” and the wings of Mr. Valli’s stratospheric falsetto. And now, 45 years later, his star is rising again.
“Jersey Boys,” the Broadway musical based on the Four Seasons’ rise and fall, is a major success. Bruce Springsteen, the quintessential Jersey Boy, went to see it last month, and a photograph of him backstage with the cast ran in Rolling Stone. In England, where “Jersey Boys” will open next year, a blistering remix of the Four Seasons’ 1967 single “Beggin’ ” became a Top 40 hit. A career-spanning boxed set, “Jersey Beat: The Music of Frankie Valli & the 4 Seasons,” came out this year. Beginning in 2004 Mr. Valli had a recurring role as the stone-faced mob captain Rusty Millio in “The Sopranos.” And in a recent issue of Blender, Mr. Valli was described as “owning the 2000s.”
So however rickety the modern world may seem, it has somehow caught up with Mr. Valli. Against all conceivable odds this 73-year-old singer is now something he has never been before: hip.
To capitalize on Mr. Valli’s current stature, on Oct. 2 Universal Motown is releasing “Romancing the ’60s,” on which he sings love songs from the period when he attained his first great prominence. While the 13 songs Mr. Valli chose to interpret, from Stevie Wonder’s “My Cherie Amour” to Ben E. King’s “Spanish Harlem,” span the entire decade, the album is really a tribute to the smartly produced, soulful pop that defined the ’60s before psychedelia, blues-rock and protest music began to dominate. The album’s models are recent collections by the likes of Barry Manilow and Rod Stewart, which recast songs familiar to older listeners and were rewarded with healthy sales. That it is Mr. Valli’s first album of new material in 15 years lends it a sense of occasion.
Mr. Valli is “a guy who can walk through walls now,” said Doug Morris, the chairman and chief executive of the Universal Music Group. “My dream is that this creates a franchise, where every year we put out another album of Frankie Valli’s interpretations of classic songs.”
THE desire to create a franchise with a singer who is already well into his 70s perhaps says as much about the precarious state of the music industry as it does about Mr. Valli’s commercial prospects. But older fans remain one of the few demographic groups buying CDs, rather than downloading music from the Internet. And no one who attends one of the riotously received performances of “Jersey Boys” — or one of the 70 or so shows that Mr. Valli still performs each year with a newly constituted Four Seasons — can deny that there is an audience for his music. (He is set to play four nights in November at the Frederick P. Rose Hall of Jazz at Lincoln Center.)
Mr. Valli is the latest in a series of grandfatherly figures to undergo revivals; his predecessors include the likes of Sinatra, Dean Martin, Tony Bennett and Hugh Hefner. And a certain irony imbues the reverential cult status now accorded the Four Seasons album “The Genuine Imitation Life Gazette,” an unlikely psychedelic experiment from 1967. In a YouTube culture measured in nanoseconds, audiences seem curiously fascinated by anyone who has lasted, particularly those who have done so on their own terms, as Mr. Valli has.
Still, without question, “Jersey Boys” is driving the renewed interest in Mr. Valli. The show, which is more of a no-holds-barred band biography than a jukebox musical, won four Tony Awards, including best musical, and it has grossed more than $100 million since it opened less than two years ago. Performances in other cities have generated an additional $50 million.
“I’m elated,” Mr. Valli said. “It’s over the top for me. Sometimes I wonder if I’m dreaming. It really has been wonderful.”
Dressed in black pants and a round-collared gray shirt, Mr. Valli sat on a couch in his suite at the Borgata Hotel and Casino in Atlantic City, a few hours before closing a three-night stand there. He’s short — his size is a running joke in “Jersey Boys” — but his presence, thoughtful and intense, makes him seem larger. Workout clothes were drying on a handrail that ran inside the floor-to-ceiling windows behind him, and the phones in his room rang constantly. Mr. Valli lives near Los Angeles, so performing in his home state means that family members, friends and admirers all want tickets and a chance to visit. Even Scott Weiland, the bad-boy lead singer of the hard-rock band Velvet Revolver, which was also playing at the Borgata, stopped backstage to pay his respects.
Born Francis Castelluccio in 1934 and raised in Newark, Mr. Valli comes from a working-class background. As “Jersey Boys” depicts, organized crime figures were ever present in the neighborhoods, bars and clubs where he and the rest of the classic lineup of the Four Seasons — Bob Gaudio, Tommy DeVito and Nick Massi — performed.
“We worked in every saloon in New Jersey, and in most cases the guys who owned those places were mobbed up,” Mr. Valli said. “We were used to it. We got to know everybody, and they liked us. I was never owned by the mob, or part of the mob. If I didn’t have any success, and I wanted to go that route, I certainly could have.
“But success, what was it? A kid comes out of high school. Nobody’s sending me to college. Whatever I wanted to do, I had to take care of it on my own. Who knows what would have happened?”
What did happen was that “Sherry” launched a daunting string of hits — “Big Girls Don’t Cry,” “Dawn,” “Rag Doll” and dozens of others — that made the Four Seasons one of the biggest groups of the ’60s. Their impeccable harmonies derived from the doo-wop era, but Mr. Valli’s falsetto was a force of nature that defied genre and gave the foursome an immediately identifiable sound.
In his room at the Borgata, Mr. Valli characteristically played down his singing. “I never gave it a lot of thought,” he said. “People would say, ‘He’s got a three- or four-octave range,’ and I had no idea what that even meant. Somebody would say, ‘Hit this note,’ and I’d just do it.”
But there is something far greater than technical ability in Mr. Valli’s extraordinary voice. “To sing that high and that strong is pretty much unique,” explained Steven Van Zandt, a fellow New Jerseyan who plays guitar with Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band and starred as Silvio Dante, Tony Soprano’s consigliere, in “The Sopranos.” “But his regular voice is so amazing. I’d love it when he’d break out of the falsetto, like at the end of the chorus in ‘Walk Like a Man.’ When he’d hit” — he sang — “ ‘and walk like a man, my son.’ Whoa! Goose bumps. A fantastic, otherworldly voice.”
Speaking of his own ambitions as a signer, Mr. Valli said: “It’s very important to be believable. Nobody can teach you the soulful parts, the heartful parts, of what singing is about. It’s like putting your signature on the song. I’ve always tried to do that.”
BOB GAUDIO, one of the founding members of the Four Seasons and co-writer of nearly all the group’s hits, sat sipping a glass of wine and eating a vegetable panini in a hotel lounge after a recent performance of “Jersey Boys” in New York.
Mr. Gaudio, who produced “Romancing the ’60s,” and Mr. Valli have been musical collaborators and business partners for well over four decades on the strength of a handshake — a “Jersey contract,” as the musical puts it. They own the masters of all the Four Seasons’ music, as well as Mr. Valli’s solo material, and they have retained their publishing rights, rarities for musicians of their era. They split everything 50-50.
At the performance of “Jersey Boys” and afterward, Mr. Gaudio went completely unrecognized, which is fine with him. Never comfortable in the spotlight, he quit performing in the early ’70s to concentrate on songwriting and production.
“Frankie has been put in an icon status by this show, and that’s a just reward for him,” Mr. Gaudio said. “Two, three, four hits — yeah, whatever. But after 20, 30, 40, you’ve got to say hey, wait a minute. How many people have accomplished what he’s accomplished as a vocalist?”
The Four Seasons are among the few American groups to survive the British Invasion in the 1960s, and Mr. Valli has hit the charts at least once in every decade since then. They were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1990. But once musical tastes changed after the Beatles, the Four Seasons never again seemed significant.
Part of the reason for that is cultural. For example, as the spectacular use of Mr. Valli’s “Can’t Take My Eyes Off You” in the barroom scene of the Michael Cimino film “The Deer Hunter” makes clear, fans of the Four Seasons were far more likely to fight in the Vietnam War than to protest it. For a long time anyone hoping to seem cool could scarcely do worse that proclaim devotion to the Four Seasons.
None of which fazes Mr. Valli at all. Even in the leanest times there was always as much work available for him as a live performer as he cared to do. Anyway, he was “never one of those guys who wanted to work 300 nights a year.” As for whether or not “Romancing the ’60s” becomes a hit, Mr. Valli shrugs in that offhand Italian way that expresses supreme indifference. “You go in and do the best you can,” he said. “How many hits do you need?”
Mr. Valli refused dessert at Patsy’s, but a plate of sweets was brought out for him anyway. He picked up a small cookie, dipped it beneath the foam of his decaf cappuccino and took a bite. His face softened with pleasure.
“I’ve had a wonderful life,” he said. “With all the ups and downs, all the disappointments, all the accolades that come with success, I wouldn’t change it for anything. To get out onstage and watch people get happy and appreciate what you’re doing? That’s like being touched by God to do something very special. It’s really nice.”
Posts: 4262 | From: Charlotte, N.C., USA | Registered: Oct 1999
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Location: Bobcats Arena, Charlotte Day: Thursday Attendance: A sellout crowd of more than 18,000
The opener: Ky-Mani Marley incurred favor with the crowd by opening his half hour set with Roots, Rock, Reggae and finishing with No Woman, No Cry, two songs from his late father Bob Marley's repertoire. However, he flashed his own charismatic side by enthralling the crowd with The March, a hip-hop/reggae hybrid song from his new album, Radio, that juxtaposed the war in Iraq with street violence.
The crowd: Straight out of 1984. Lots of baseball jerseys and classic rock band shirts (think Rolling Stones, Ratt, The Who, Rush, AC/DC, Def Leppard and Foreigner). Many in attendance were in their forties or older, but twentysomethings and teens were present, too. "We brought them because they want to see (16-year-old bassist) Wolfgang (Van Halen, the son of Eddie and ex-wife Valerie Bertinelli)," says Mandy Mashburn, 38, of York, S.C. She and husband Ric, 37, brought son, Rick, 14, and his friend Quin Magee, also 14, to the show. Both boys play guitar and heard Van Halen songs at home, but watched Wolfgang on YouTube. They already had souvenir T-shirts on.
Says neighbor Jim Gilkeson, 39, a Van Halen concert veteran who accompanied them, "I prefer (the band's original lead singer) David (Lee Roth)," he says. Roth fronted the band, founded in L.A. by brothers Eddie and Alex, for about seven years. Later, Sammy Hagar took over as lead singer for a decade and a 2004 reunion tour. "Really in my mind, I think they've all realized (Roth as the lead singer) is what works."
Stage setting: An S-shaped walkway swooped from above Alex Van Halen's drum kit and flowed into a catwalk that allowed Roth and others to cavort through the crowd. The billboard-sized video screen often displayed an "Eddie cam" view that zoomed in on and captured guitarist Eddie Van Halen's fretwork. Green laser lights occasionally came into play.
The merch: Pretty conservative, considering the modern-day merchandising frenzy that has led to many bands offering logo-monikered baby outfits. One on-the-edge offering for the ladies: a $15 red Van Halen thong. Also: a $70 hoodie, $15 tote bags, $10 sweatbands and a selection of $35-$40 T-shirts sporting the classic VH logo.
The lowdown: For longtime Van Halen fans, question marks were answered. First to take the stage, Eddie, 52, emerged — clean-cut, bare-chested and buff — and fired off some Eruption-era riffs to a rowdy and affectionate reception from a standing crowd. Any lasting effects from his rehab stint earlier this year and past treatment for tongue cancer were not evident.
Returning to the band he parted ways with 22 years ago, Roth, also 52, smiled like a Cheshire cat — and clad in skintight leather pants and sparkling embroidered tunics — and strutted like Chanticleer. His flowing locks are gone and his voice sported a slightly lower register, but Roth sounded virile and satisfied the faithful with some high-pitched screams and spinning karate kicks. On drums, Alex, 54, continued to stoke the band's fire and Wolfgang wooed the crowd with his self-effacing demeanor.
Musical highlights: Showing their teamwork from the get-go, Roth scatted to Eddie's playing during their cover of the Kinks' You Really Got Me. "It only took us 20 years to get this far," Roth told the crowd during the next song, I'm the One (another song from the band's 1978 debut album), referring to decade-long reunion rumors.
Two-thirds of the way into the 2-hour-plus show, Alex and Eddie collaborated on a crunching intro to Everybody Wants Some!! During Hot for Teacher, Roth happily exclaimed with emphasis, "I heard you missed us, we're back."
The non-stop barrage that also included Beautiful Girls, their cover of Roy Orbison's Oh, Pretty Woman and Panama, another from hit album 1984 (released in 1984), filled the arena with hard rock energy rarely generated since, well, the band's previous forays.
Memorable moments: The absence of bass player Michael Anthony was obvious, but Wolfgang missed nary a beat neither on bass or background vocals. In fact, he had his own rock star moments standing at the stage's crest to strike the opening notes of Runnin' with the Devil and slapping hands with crowd members while stalking the runway during Atomic Punk. (Also not mentioned: Sammy Hagar, who served as lead vocalist after Roth, set to tour with Anthony this fall. Those two attended the band's induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame this year.)
He and his father had a couple touching moments including a smooch after Dance the Night Away and Eddie sliding across the stage on his knees — while playing Little Guitars— and coming to a stop at Wolfgang's feet. Eddie and Roth also had a good rapport and the two slapped hands after Jump.
"They were like a family up there," said Matt Long, Greenville, N.C.. 36, who attended the concert with his brother Andrew, 33. Both have listened to the band since they were teens. "Honestly, it was something I didn't think I would see," he said. "The core of the band is Eddie and Alex, but the alpha male is David. I thought the crowd was going to be older, but this proves their influence and that the interest goes beyond generations."
Both were more than pleased with the performance. "I think David held back. He hasn't been in front of 20,000 people in 20 years," Long said.
Knowing the group's volatility, he said, "you want to be at the first show because you don't know what will happen with them."
Posts: 4262 | From: Charlotte, N.C., USA | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Somewhere out there Classic Rocker is pumped and is itching to request more VH stuff now
Posts: 1483 | From: Kansas City MO 64119 | Registered: Mar 2005
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Eddie had been trying to get Michael out of the band for years, the only reason he was still with the band was Sammy's demands that no Mike, no Sammy.
Tix out here ran $75 to $150 if available. I'm going to pass on this one. Unfortunatly, I saw them last time when Eddie was messed up (at least Shinedown opened for them) and that was $50 top tix price. I saw the Sam & Dave show where each did their own thing; saw VH way back when at Magic Mountain and the clubs in Pasadena. Also saw Sammy open for VH open for Black Sabbath (with Ozzy still with them) open for Boston for the Don't Look Back Tour.
It might be fun to see if Wolfgang grows and the rest of the band breaks down.
[ October 01, 2007, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: DavidE ]
Posts: 2246 | From: Palmdale, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2001
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Kudos go out to Kaiser Permanente for putting out a television commercial casting karaoke in a positive light. If you have not seen the commercial, it has a guy singing in a karaoke bar--not great but not butchering the song either. The audience is grooving and singing along. The commercial ends by saying "singing can add 15 years to your life."
Posts: 1025 | From: San Francisco, CA, USA | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
Revolution Or Sell Out? From the Sunday NY Times editorial page (whoa) - and a sign of the times. One of the new business models for selling CDs, and a clear sign that money means the most to/from one of the most self-righteous people ever to succeed in the Big Vinyl.
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EDITORIAL A Big Box of Eagles
Published: November 11, 2007
The new Eagles album — “Long Road Out of Eden”— came out recently, but only at Wal-Mart. One of the points the Eagles may be making is that you have to consider your allegiances in the world of the present, not the past. A few years ago, any link between Wal-Mart and Don Henley, an ardent environmentalist, would have seemed puzzling at best. But there is a simple equation here. This new album was released without the participation of a major record label. This isn’t just a case of selling exclusively in the Big Box. It’s a case of giving up Big Vinyl and its distribution.
Mr. Henley has also explained this decision in terms of demographics. The Eagles may have the best-selling album ever, but Mr. Henley is 60, and most of the band’s fans are either closing in on that birthday or receding from it. There is no doubt that Wal-Mart is doing a good job of getting the CD into the hands of buyers. After all, it sold 710,000 copies in its first week, the second strongest debut of the year so far. The details have not been made public, but it is safe to say that the band is getting far more money per CD than it would have if the album had been released by a major label.
The music industry is undergoing a series of tectonic shifts, something that is beautifully illustrated by the marketing of “Long Road Out of Eden.” But it is also reflected in the decision by Billboard, the music trade magazine, to begin listing on its sales charts records sold exclusively through a single source, something it never used to do. And the No. 1 record? “Long Road Out of Eden.” This is both a recognition of Wal-Mart’s importance in music sales and a sensible effort to keep the Billboard charts from becoming irrelevant.
Have the Eagles sold out? Mr. Henley says that by doing business with Wal-Mart, he has more influence and easier access to the company’s executives, including the ones responsible for trying to make the company more environmentally conscious. His argument is almost certainly bolstered by the strong sales of “Long Road Out of Eden.”
We hope, with him, that he has the influence he suggests, otherwise this arrangement may well turn out to be nothing more than a long road to Wal-Mart.
Posts: 4262 | From: Charlotte, N.C., USA | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
But can the Eagles do a Sheryl Crow cover song and sell it at Wal-Mart? What are the editorial policies for albums sold at Wal-Mart? I know they only sell edited versions of the release and they took all the Sheryl Crow cds off the shelf because of the gun selling policies at Wal-Mart. How much censorship will Wal-Mart have and how much pull will Henly have with this (not that the Eagles ever used four letter words, but...)
On another note, if Billboard didn't change its policy then Britney would have had the #1 selling cd this past week, yes, everyone loves a train wreck.
Posts: 2246 | From: Palmdale, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2001
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The Eagles deal with Walmart is only for a year, so I'm sure they didn't give Walmart that much say. They could have just as easily made a deal with Best Buy like the Stones did, or not gone exclusive at all, and still had the number one CD. When Walmart pulled the Sheryl Crow CD's because of that line in the song, she wasn't near the star she became later on. It's easy to get ****ed at somebody when it's not likely going to hurt your bottom line.
quote:Originally posted by DavidE: they took all the Sheryl Crow cds off the shelf because of the gun selling policies at Wal-Mart. How much censorship will Wal-Mart have and how much pull will Henly have with this (not that the Eagles ever used four letter words, but...)
Ok, the problem with what you stated here is that you're mixing 2 issues into 1. Yes, Wal-Mart only sells edited versions. I get alot of DJ stuff at Wal-Mart for this reason. As a wedding DJ aside from my karaoke business, I have alot of children present and knowing I can buy anything at Wal-Mart and have it family friendly helps me know I can play to the wide tastes while still not getting in trouble for playing a swearing-laden track.
As for Sheryl Crow. Wal-Mart had nothing to do with that. Sheryl Crow ordered her stuff pulled because Wal-Mart sells guns. Wal-Mart pulled the stuff on her request and had nothing to do with making the decision, they just refused to change their business model to suit an individual artist.
Posts: 202 | From: Rosemount, MN 55068 | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
From today's New York Post, on Page Six (the gossip rag section of the, ahem, paper).
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Karaoke Queen
November 14, 2007 -- LEFT Coast party promoter Brent Bolthouse has been dumped by his supermodel girlfriend, Emma Heming, who was a judge at Pete Wentz's karaoke night at Angels & Kings Monday. Heming, now dating John Stamos, has moved back to NY from LA and signed with 1 Model Management.
Wentz's fellow Fall Out Boy Patrick Stump and the band Jet played karaoke for a crowd that included Tommy Hilfiger and director Darren Aronofsky.
Posts: 4262 | From: Charlotte, N.C., USA | Registered: Oct 1999
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I don't recall if Fall Out Boy or Jet are karaoke no-no's, but wouldn't it be ironic if they were?
Posts: 902 | From: Joliet,IL.USA | Registered: Oct 2001
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Troubled soul singer Amy Winehouse kicked off her 17-date tour with a shambolic performance that saw fuming fans booing and marching out, reports said Thursday.
The concert at the National Indoor Arena in Birmingham, was a chance for the 24-year-old to get back to singing and put her woes behind her.
Winehouse has had "health issues" -- widely reported to be drug and alcohol abuse -- and her party-loving husband Blake Fielder-Civil is being held on grievous bodily harm and conspiracy to pervert the course of justice charges.
But Wednesday's gig at the NIA, which can hold up to 13,000 people, was slammed by angry fans as a "disgrace" after she turned up late and stumbled about the stage.
When punters started jeering, Winehouse snapped: "Let me tell you something. First of all, if you're booing, you're a mug for buying a ticket.
"Second, to all those booing, just wait till my husband gets out of incarceration -- and I mean that."
The Birmingham Mail newspaper's music critic Andy Coleman said it was "one of the saddest nights of my life".
"I saw a supremely talented artist reduced to tears, stumbling around the stage and, unforgivably, swearing at the audience," he wrote.
James Dyas demanded his money back, according to London's Evening Standard newspaper.
"She came on stage half an hour late. She managed four songs but was slurring her words and swaying all over the place," he said.
"She fell into the guitar stand and dropped the microphone -- it was atrocious. The song dedicated to her husband was so bad it was like swinging a cat round your head."
An, from Birmingham, commented on The Times newspaper's website: "Her singing was awful, out of tune and slurred. She sang for around 50 minutes -- drinking throughout.
"I have never seen so many people leave a show. 'Valerie' was my favourite song -- she massacred it!"
Pete Massera, from north-west England, added: "It was an absolutely atrocious gig. I, like many others in the audience, got our coats and left before she even finished the set."
Gary Atwell, from nearby Rugby, said "streams" of fans walked out, according to the BBC website.
"I went out for a sneaky cigarette half way through and at least 40 people left, just in that five minutes," he said.
"Valerie", the closing number, descended into chaos when Winehouse stopped singing, dropped the microphone and walked off stage.
Winehouse, named best British female solo artist at the Brit Awards in February, has rarely been out of the newspapers in recent months due to her lifestyle issues.
-------------------- Matt Posts: 3332 | From: Independence, mo | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Originally posted by DavidE: they took all the Sheryl Crow cds off the shelf because of the gun selling policies at Wal-Mart. How much censorship will Wal-Mart have and how much pull will Henly have with this (not that the Eagles ever used four letter words, but...)
Ok, the problem with what you stated here is that you're mixing 2 issues into 1. Yes, Wal-Mart only sells edited versions. I get alot of DJ stuff at Wal-Mart for this reason. As a wedding DJ aside from my karaoke business, I have alot of children present and knowing I can buy anything at Wal-Mart and have it family friendly helps me know I can play to the wide tastes while still not getting in trouble for playing a swearing-laden track.
As for Sheryl Crow. Wal-Mart had nothing to do with that. Sheryl Crow ordered her stuff pulled because Wal-Mart sells guns. Wal-Mart pulled the stuff on her request and had nothing to do with making the decision, they just refused to change their business model to suit an individual artist.
I don't know where you got your information, but as I recall and as Rolling Stone put it -
"It was back in 1996 when Wal-Mart shocked the music industry by refusing to stock Crow's self-titled release because of offending lyrics from "Love Is a Good Thing": "Watch out sister, Watch out brother/Watch our children as they kill each other/With a gun they bought at the Wal-Mart discount stores."
"Wal-Mart and other family value discounters such as K-Mart and Caldor routinely refuse to sell records laced with profanity or objectionable art. But Wal-Mart was the first chain to boycott an album because company officials were offended by lyrics about their own stores. At the time, a Wal-Mart spokesman pointed out the chain had a strict policy against selling guns to minors. The ban removed Sheryl Crow from every store in the Wal-Mart chain, which accounts for nearly one out of every ten records sold in America. (Crow's debut, Tuesday Night Music Club, has remained in Wal-Mart's stores throughout the controversy.)"
As for the dj stuff, that's fine for you, but shouldn't I have a choice on which version I would like to listen to? Why not stock both? They sell R-rated dvd's with sex, violence, and foul language (of course they ask for ID, and why can't they do the same for cd's?). Anyway, I don't buy cd's from Wal-Mart for that reason, and that is just my choice, where you get yours is up to you and with your dj issues I guess it makes good sense to buy from them.
[ November 15, 2007, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: DavidE ]
Posts: 2246 | From: Palmdale, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
Its an easy choice for me, Im a Union Sheet Metal Worker. I have NEVER seen the inside of a Wal-Mart. And I never will.
Posts: 440 | From: Kirkland, Washington | Registered: Jul 2006
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Amen to that Willy!!!! I also do not like Walmart, has destroyed every community they launch a store in. I am a Union Truck Driver (Teamsters) we also boycott Walmart. Plenty of other stores to buy CD's from
Posts: 207 | From: joliet Ill usa | Registered: Feb 2005
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I'm also a teamster truck driver, but I shop at Walmart when it suits me, and then I have more money to spend at other businesses. I'm not really proving anything by going to Best Buy and paying $3 more for the same CD Walmart has.
I know hard-core union types don't like to think of a union as a big business, but that's what they are. Maybe companies like Walmart put up every road block to unions because they know (and the unions know, but won't admit) that they aren't going to really change anything, and only take their 2 hours pay per month out of each worker's paycheck. The unions are frothing at the mouth at the thought of millions of dollars a month in dues, and they tell the workers any BS to try to convince them to sign up. Minimum wage (or slightly higher) jobs aren't going to all of a sudden become high paying jobs because of a union.
posted
Well, if this has turned into the Wal-Mart thread...... It reminds me of the South Park episode where Wal-Mart comes into town and everyone in South Park can't stop shopping there because it's so cheap. Buying stuff they don't need simply because it's inexpensive. They all say Wal-Mart is bad, yet they all shop there.
If everyone who said Wal-Mart is evil and bad would simply stop shopping there, they would probably go out of business. People don't want to pay a few more dollars to shop at "Mom and Pop" stores anymore. They like the all in one convienence and the lower prices. It's not Wal-Marts fault more poeple choose to shop there...
Posts: 86 | From: Burbs, IL | Registered: May 2007
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posted
what about shopping online at the discount retailers or whosalers? It's the same ting!
Do you guys pay more for your cdgs at one store rather than another because you demonize that cheaper retailer the way you demonize walmart?
I'm in business for myself, and trying to build it. The site I get some things from is more expensive than walmart, despite my kickbacks... sorry, until I get more people below me and I make money on their money, I'll continue to be a smarter shopper!
-------------------- Matt Posts: 3332 | From: Independence, mo | Registered: Oct 2001
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I don't buy gas or anything at Citgo, or Vallero either. Can't stand that South American a##hole
Posts: 207 | From: joliet Ill usa | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
I had to chuckle to myself a bit when I read this. It starts out referencing the recent lawsuits against Prince and Miley Cyrus/Hannah Montana by their respective fan clubs, and references the scarcity and high cost of concert tickets, the fact that many tickets end up in the control of computerized bot-buying "ticket agencies" (can you say 'loan shark scalper'?), and the suggestion by these artists and others, that, by joining the fan clubs (for $xx), you will be privy to better choices and assured of access for concert tickets – sometimes true and sometimes not.
Anyway, the second half of the article delves into the culture of the Internet and fan blogs, and how freely opinions are freely tossed about, as well as their general characteristics.
From Sunday’s NY Times.
BTW: As a side note, check out the Mom who joined the fan clubs of both Kenny Chesney and Bon Jovi to get cheaper and 'guaranteed' tickets. How about that for Rock "Cross-Over" in today's Country music world? (We're using a new category when a Country song/artist is on both the Country charts (first) and then the Pop/Rock/Hip-Hop charts - 'CountryPop'.)
_____________________________________________
Pout and Shout
By MIREYA NAVARRO Published: December 2, 2007
ALL is not well in MileyWorld.
Members of mileyworld.com, mostly preteen and young teenage girls devoted to the Disney TV show “Hannah Montana” and the show’s star, Miley Cyrus, are suing the singer’s official fan Web site for allegedly promising them first dibs on concert tickets and leaving them empty-handed.
“I really don’t want to be in the fan club anymore,” said one of the plaintiffs, Mia Piazza, a 9-year-old from Pittsburgh.
Over in the principality of Prince, subjects are also rebelling. Three fan Web sites have banded together as “Prince Fans United” to fight the music performer’s attempts to stop them from posting photos and other content related to him.
One of the sites declared: “We at prince.org will not stand for this and have joined forces with the other affected sites to tell our side of the story and stand up to what are, in our opinion, bullying tactics designed to silence freedom of speech.”
By definition, members of fan clubs are passionate, but these days they also seem cranky and some are even at war with the performers they supposedly slavishly admire. Fan clubs today are online communities that vent on Internet message boards and gripe directly to performers about everything, including song lists, merchandise and the prices and availability of tickets.
And when sounding off is met by dead air, fans sue, complain to consumer protection agencies and even plot concerted action on a global scale.
"There’s all kinds of ways to be indignant," said Jerry M. Lewis, an emeritus professor of sociology at Kent State University, who studies fan behavior.
Ticket woes are a major source of anger. Average ticket prices for concerts keep rising, and many fans are priced out or forced to buy at exorbitant markups from brokers and other resellers. Last year, some Barbra Streisand fans were fuming when they learned she was staging her final concert tour — this after they had already paid steep prices for her previous, supposedly, last-ever tour in 2000. (The average ticket cost nearly $300, according to Pollstar, a concert trade magazine ).
But Streisand fans are not unique. When any hot concert tour is announced, some fans are already seething.
“The attitude is, “How am I going to get taken advantage of this time?’” said Tim McQuaid, the president of Fan Asylum, a company that manages fan clubs, ticket sales and V.I.P. packages for artists such as Maroon 5 and Whitney Houston.
Fans often join a performer’s “official” fan club for the specific benefit of having access to tickets before they go on sale to the general public. But some of the fan clubs have become suspect — serving mainly as a profit center, charging membership fees that can reach more than $100 and making even more money selling “exclusive” merchandise and other items.
Mr. McQuaid, who has been managing fan clubs since 1980, beginning with the band Journey, said when the mission shifts from an emphasis on service to one of revenue, “You’re just asking for trouble from the fan base.”
Some MileyWorld members want their membership money back. They are suing the two companies that run the club for the artist, Interactive Media Marketing and Smiley Miley, which is owned by Ms. Cyrus.
Although MileyWorld has benefits like exclusive “webisodes” of the singer backstage, contests, games and access to her “secret diary,” it was the offer “to do our best” to secure an allotment of concert tickets for members that persuaded Mia’s mother, Debbie Piazza, to let her daughter join the club for $29.95.
Ms. Piazza, 32, who works for U.S. Steel adjusting invoices, said she had joined fan sites for Kenny Chesney and Bon Jovi to buy concert tickets and was successful in both cases. But with MileyWorld, she said, she found no tickets even when she logged on to Ticketmaster at the exact time they went on sale.
In defense, Miss Cyrus’s representatives said that 70,000 of MileyWorld’s 200,000 members were able to buy tickets, and issued a public statement: “MileyWorld members had far greater access to concert tickets than the general public and other fan clubs. The claim that the vast majority of MileyWorld members were unable to obtain concert tickets is simply false. MileyWorld will vigorously defend itself from the frivolous claims in the lawsuit.”
Robert Peirce, the lawyer suing on behalf of members, said the site should have revealed the size of the membership at each concert location so that fans could have figured out their chances and made an informed decision about whether to fork over almost $30.
“I felt I was misled,” Ms. Piazza said. “All I want is my $30 back and I hope they put some kind of disclaimer so it doesn’t happen to somebody else again.”
Fans have long come together in another type of club — the free unofficial sites used to trade information about tickets and the artist. Most exist harmoniously with the official sites. But the informal sites can develop existences of their own, with members as loyal to each other as to the artist.
On their Web site, the leaders of Prince Fans United say they believe the performer is using copyright concerns to hide his real goal: “to stifle all critical commentary about Prince.”
Calls to AEG Live, the singer’s promoter, and to the Web Sheriff, the copyright enforcement company handling Prince’s cease-and-desist notices, were not returned. The fan sites, based in California and Europe, said they were negotiating a resolution and couldn’t comment on the dispute, but their message boards have not demonstrated noticeable new restraint.
As a fan wrote to prince.org: “The more I think about it, I say just drop him, remove all content, let him have his way. It’s obvious he doesn’t want us as fans anymore, so why should we want him?”
Ben Margolin, 36, a software engineering manager from Millbrae, Calif., said he became a founder of prince.org 10 years ago because “I really connected with his music.” But now the site functions more as an international social network where people discuss politics and other topics, he said.
“People stay for the community that’s evolved, the personalities and environment,” he said. “It’s a virtual hang-out.”
Andrea Baker, an associate professor of sociology at Ohio University who specializes in online relationships and is studying two fan sites dedicated to the Rolling Stones, said that with communication comes the ability not only to swap intelligence but to complain collectively.
Ms. Baker said many fans are encouraged to gripe by the assumption that their favorite artists may be tuning in to their boards.
“There’s a closer connection between the fan and the performer,” she said. “Some of the assertiveness comes from their knowing they are being heard.”
Once all fans expected was an autographed picture, but now many demand blogs, MySpace pages and V.I.P access to the artist, some fan club managers say.
“Before, an artist could do a concert and disappear into the ether,” said Nathan Hubbard, the chief executive officer of Musictoday, a subsidiary of Live Nation that manages fan sites for 30 artists, including John Mayer, Celine Dion and the Rolling Stones. “Today fans expect you to be present and the connection doesn’t stop when the artist leaves the stage.”
Performers, he said, must be clear about what they will do. “If you underdeliver, the Internet gives everybody an equal voice.”
But almost anything can spark fan ire. A group of Clay Aiken fans fired off a complaint to the Federal Trade Commission last year accusing his record label of false advertising for promoting him as heterosexual. Mr. Aiken, who has faced relentless rumors that he is gay, does not talk about his sexuality. The F.T.C. has taken no action.
“People will complain about everything,” said Tim Bierman, the manager of Pearl Jam’s Ten Club, which is run in-house by the band. “We might hear a whole day’s worth of criticism about a particular shade of color for a T-shirt.”
But fan club managers say artists are aware that fan clubs are their most loyal audience and strive to reward them. The Ten Club offers members perks like an exclusive new single at Christmas.
And Ms. Baker said that despite all the griping, fans are still fans. When Keith Richards fell from a tree and was injured last year, she said, “there was an outpouring of concern” on boards. “The fans were very preoccupied with finding out every detail of what happened,” she said.
Even Ms. Piazza is trying to find tickets for Ms. Cyrus’s concert in Pittsburgh on Jan. 4, four days before her daughter Mia’s 10th birthday. She checks three or four times a day with Ticketmaster, hoping a corporate sponsor has released a batch of tickets. And she test-drove a car from a dealership in order to be eligible for a drawing for tickets.
Mia says the ticket snafu has not soured her on her favorite artist.
“No matter what, I’ll always be her fan,” she said. “I just love her music.”
Posts: 4262 | From: Charlotte, N.C., USA | Registered: Oct 1999
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I will say on the Prince issue, that if he's that controlling, stop being a fan, tell him to take his high vaulted opinion of himself and stick it... and that you will no longer support him, either verbally, text-wise or even financially...
I did that with Bruce Springstein and Sammy Hagar!
-------------------- Matt Posts: 3332 | From: Independence, mo | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
Its still a shame everyone always trying to find a reason to sue somebody. Just because con artists found a way to make extra money they dont get the blame but the fan clubs do!
I rank this up there to stupidity like
Girl Sued McDonalds after she spills Hot Coffee on herself
Or the old lady who just recently sued Walmart for being taxed while purchasing Toilet Paper
Or the NY Jets fan who was trying to Sued the Patriots cause they cheating during the game.
Whats next? someone's kid will get sick by another kid while at school so the family will sue the school district?
[ December 02, 2007, 03:17 AM: Message edited by: Showtimecalls ]
Posts: 1483 | From: Kansas City MO 64119 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
And the crazy thing is that people actually win these lawsuits.
Posts: 1025 | From: San Francisco, CA, USA | Registered: Jul 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Stan: And the crazy thing is that people actually win these lawsuits.
That's because it's cheaper for the insurance companies to offer an out-of-court settlement rather than accumulating legal costs. Even if the plaintiff would lose in a frivolous trial, most don't have any money worth going after in a countersuit. That's another reason why insurance premiums are so high.
I read recently where a burglar was injured while walking in a dark building he had broken into. He sued the property owner and won a settlement.
Posts: 355 | From: Omaha, NE | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
"Grandma Got Run Over By a Reindeer" song leads to multimillion-dollar lawsuit
Associated Press - November 27, 2007 10:43 PM ET
LOS ANGELES (AP) - A feud involving the man who sang "Grandma Got Run Over By a Reindeer" could wind up in court, just in time for Christmas.
Elmo Shropshire was sued for breach of contract Monday by a company that claims he interfered in a $1 million-plus deal to sell musical trucks, bobblehead dolls, snow globes and cookie jars featuring characters from an animated show based on the novelty song.
The tale about Santa mowing down a tipsy grandma with his sleigh was first heard in 1979 and has become a holiday favorite. It inspired a 2000 animated TV program that continues to run seasonally around the world.
The Fred Rappoport Company contends it has the rights to use the song for products featuring characters from that program. But Shropshire says he holds the copyright to the song and it can't be used without his permission.
Posts: 355 | From: Omaha, NE | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
Since Taylor Hicks was dropped from J Records earlier this week/last week, this stuff has been bubbling in the news. This is from today's NY Times.
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Exit Another Idol Star Compiled by LAWRENCE VAN GELDER Published: January 11, 2008 Add the name Katharine McPhee, to the growing list of “American Idol” contestants cast adrift from Sony-BMG labels. Ms. McPhee, the runner-up to Taylor Hicks in 2006 on the fifth season of “Idol,” has left RCA after a single album, Billboard reported. Last year her self-titled debut sold only 366,000 copies in the United States, according to Nielsen SoundScan. Mr. Hicks and Ruben Studdard, the 2003 “American Idol” winner, recently parted ways with J Records, another Sony-BMG label.
Posts: 4262 | From: Charlotte, N.C., USA | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Perhaps all these major record labels will collapse in on themselves like a star sucked into a black hole. They've, (at least in their own minds) become so big and signed such questionable talent, (either in substance or longevity) that it's not surprising to me that artists are either leaving of their own free will or being dumped.
Let's face it. American Idol made for arguably(?) okay television, but to rely, (as it seems some record labels have) on this being the new source of talent from which to line their pockets is just plain stupid and they get what ever it is coming to them.
You can only force feed crap on the buying public for so long.
posted
Kelly Clarkson, Carrie Underwood, and Chris Daughtry are the only good things Idol has produced. Rueben, Fantasia, Clay, Justin, Taylor are big mistakes. Just how rigged is the Idol contest? Seems like the ones that make it big, are the ones that lose lately ('cept Kelly). Probably only watch the beginning of the auditions, then forget about the rest of the show this year
Posts: 207 | From: joliet Ill usa | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
wow "Flames", your tougher on American Idol and the music industry than you are on my "nothing" topic. I do agree that the music industry has been a mess for twenty years now, though....
Posts: 880 | From: jacksonville, fl | Registered: May 1999
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