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Author Topic: It's Only The Future of Pop Music
BC/Studio Manager
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Two viewpoints about the value of “today’s music” vs. “yesterday’s music”, and how it may affect “tomorrow’s music”.


////////////////////////////////////////////


Read his lips: 'Live' means live

By Edna Gundersen, USA TODAY

Elton John has pardoned Madonna, but he's still mouthing off about lip-syncing.
"I have a bee in my bonnet," he says. "A live show should be live. If it's not, the ticket should say: 'Elements of this show are not live, especially the vocals.' Madonna's probably the least culpable of a lot of people, but what I said is an open secret."

At the recent Q magazine awards in London, John blew a fuse over Madonna's nomination for best live act (she lost to Muse). He has cooled since then. (Related story: Elton John, still standing)

"I haven't formally made an apology yet," he says, realizing he might have overstated her crime considering Ashlee Simpson's lip-sync debacle on Saturday Night Live. "I regret that Madonna took the hit. I regret hurting her feelings because I like her, and I admire her as an artist. She's been to my house for dinner, and I enjoy her company. I know she's taken voice lessons, and she's been trying to improve, but her show's not entirely live. It's so complex, with a lot of dancing, and she does lip-sync sometimes."

Liz Rosenberg, Madonna's publicist, said in a statement, "Madonna does not lip-sync. She sang every note of her Re-Invention Tour live."

John says: "My point is that Shirley MacLaine and Liza Minnelli never lip-synced, and they danced. And why do you have to dance? Get over it. Today there's too much mediocrity coming out of MTV, which is making stars of teenagers whose voices are auto-tuned in the studio. It's creating artists who just can't hack it. I'm sick of it."

Leaning on choreography and corrective technology, pop stars are stealing the limelight from more deserving singers who rely on musical chops, John says.

"Record companies pour money into video acts who'll never build a catalog," he says. "Who in hip-hop besides Tupac, Notorious B.I.G. and Eminem will be catalog artists? That's it. Why not put money into tours? That experience playing live will pay off in the next album.

"Radio is playing formularized pap by people who shouldn't be making records. What outlet does Rufus Wainwright have? None. Once in a while something great like the White Stripes gets through, but did anyone play the new Loretta Lynn album?"

A voracious consumer of new music, John is listening to The Killers, Muse, Kings of Leon, The Libertines, Raphael Saadiq, Joss Stone, Kanye West and Anthony Hamilton. He waxes rhapsodic about Destroy Rock & Roll, the electro-orchestral debut by Scottish producer Mylo. And he's inspired by the electrifying returns of Prince and U2.

"U2's Vertigo is so stirring and different, and Prince's tour was fantastic," John says. "And I'm standing my ground."


////////////////////////////////////////////


The Rap Against Rockism

By KELEFA SANNEH
Published in the New York Times: October 31, 2004


BAD news travels fast, and an embarrassing video travels even faster. By last Sunday morning, one of the Internet's most popular downloads was the hours-old 60-second .wmv file of Ashlee Simpson on "Saturday Night Live." As she and her band stood onstage, her own prerecorded vocals - from the wrong song - came blaring through the speakers, and it was too late to start mouthing the words. So she performed a now-infamous little jig, then skulked offstage, while the band (were a few members smirking?) played on. One of 2004's most popular new stars had been exposed as. ...

As what, exactly? The online verdict came fast and harsh, the way online verdicts usually do. A typical post on her Web site bore the headline, "Ashlee you are a no talent fraud!" After that night, everyone knew that Jessica Simpson's telegenic sister was no rock 'n' roll hero - she wasn't even a rock 'n' roll also-ran. She was merely a lip-synching pop star.

Music critics have a word for this kind of verdict, this knee-jerk backlash against producer-powered idols who didn't spend years touring dive bars. Not a very elegant word, but a useful one. The word is rockism, and among the small but extraordinarily pesky group of people who obsess over this stuff, rockism is a word meant to start fights. The rockism debate began in earnest in the early 1980's, but over the past few years it has heated up, and today, in certain impassioned circles, there is simply nothing worse than a rockist.

A rockist isn't just someone who loves rock 'n' roll, who goes on and on about Bruce Springsteen, who champions ragged-voiced singer-songwriters no one has ever heard of. A rockist is someone who reduces rock 'n' roll to a caricature, then uses that caricature as a weapon. Rockism means idolizing the authentic old legend (or underground hero) while mocking the latest pop star; lionizing punk while barely tolerating disco; loving the live show and hating the music video; extolling the growling performer while hating the lip-syncher.

Over the past decades, these tendencies have congealed into an ugly sort of common sense. Rock bands record classic albums, while pop stars create "guilty pleasure" singles. It's supposed to be self-evident: U2's entire oeuvre deserves respectful consideration, while a spookily seductive song by an R&B singer named Tweet can only be, in the smug words of a recent VH1 special, "awesomely bad."

Like rock 'n' roll itself, rockism is full of contradictions: it could mean loving the Strokes (a scruffy guitar band!) or hating them (image-conscious poseurs!) or ignoring them entirely (since everyone knows that music isn't as good as it used to be). But it almost certainly means disdaining not just Ms. Simpson but also Christina Aguilera and Usher and most of the rest of them, grousing about a pop landscape dominated by big-budget spectacles and high-concept photo shoots, reminiscing about a time when the charts were packed with people who had something to say, and meant it, even if that time never actually existed. If this sounds like you, then take a long look in the mirror: you might be a rockist.

Countless critics assail pop stars for not being rock 'n' roll enough, without stopping to wonder why that should be everybody's goal. Or they reward them disproportionately for making rock 'n' roll gestures. Writing in The Chicago Sun-Times this summer, Jim DeRogatis grudgingly praised Ms. Lavigne as "a teen-pop phenom that discerning adult rock fans can actually admire without feeling (too) guilty," partly because Ms. Lavigne "plays a passable rhythm guitar" and "has a hand in writing" her songs.

Rockism isn't unrelated to older, more familiar prejudices - that's part of why it's so powerful, and so worth arguing about. The pop star, the disco diva, the lip-syncher, the "awesomely bad" hit maker: could it really be a coincidence that rockist complaints often pit straight white men against the rest of the world? Like the anti-disco backlash of 25 years ago, the current rockist consensus seems to reflect not just an idea of how music should be made but also an idea about who should be making it.

If you're interested in - O.K., mildly obsessed with - rockism, you can find traces of it just about everywhere. Notice how those tributes to "Women Who Rock" sneakily transform "rock" from a genre to a verb to a catch-all term of praise. Ever wonder why OutKast and the Roots and Mos Def and the Beastie Boys get taken so much more seriously than other rappers? Maybe because rockist critics love it when hip-hop acts impersonate rock 'n' roll bands. (A recent Rolling Stone review praised the Beastie Boys for scruffily resisting "the gold-plated phooey currently passing for gangsta.")

From punk-rock rags to handsomely illustrated journals, rockism permeates the way we think about music. This summer, the literary zine The Believer published a music issue devoted to almost nothing but indie-rock. Two weeks ago, in The New York Times Book Review, Sarah Vowell approvingly recalled Nirvana's rise: "a group with loud guitars and louder drums knocking the whimpering Mariah Carey off the top of the charts." Why did the changing of the guard sound so much like a sexual assault? And when did we all agree that Nirvana's neo-punk was more respectable than Ms. Carey's neo-disco?

Rockism is imperial: it claims the entire musical world as its own. Rock 'n' roll is the unmarked section in the record store, a vague pop-music category that swallows all the others. If you write about music, you're presumed to be a rock critic. There's a place in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame for doo-wop groups and folk singers and disco queens and even rappers - just so long as they, y'know, rock.


Rockism just won't go away. The rockism debate began when British bands questioned whether the search for raw, guitar-driven authenticity wasn't part of rock 'n' roll's problem, instead of its solution; some new-wave bands emphasized synthesizers and drum machines and makeup and hairspray, instead. "Rockist" became for them a term of abuse, and the anti-rockists embraced the inclusive possibilities of a once-derided term: pop. Americans found other terms, but "rockist" seems the best way to describe the ugly anti-disco backlash of the late 1970's, which culminated in a full-blown anti-disco rally and the burning of thousands of disco records at Comiskey Park in Chicago in 1979: the Boston Tea Party of rockism.

That was a quarter of a century and many genres ago. By the 1990's, the American musical landscape was no longer a battleground between Nirvana and Mariah (if indeed it ever was); it was a fractured, hyper-vivid fantasy of teen-pop stars and R&B pillow-talkers and arena-filling country singers and, above all, rappers. Rock 'n' roll was just one more genre alongside the rest.

Yet many critics failed to notice. Rock 'n' roll doesn't rule the world anymore, but lots of writers still act as if it does. The rules, even today, are: concentrate on making albums, not singles; portray yourself as a rebellious individualist, not an industry pro; give listeners the uncomfortable truth, instead of pandering to their tastes. Overnight celebrities, one-hit-wonders and lip-synchers, step aside.

And just as the anti-disco partisans of a quarter-century ago railed against a bewildering new pop order (partly because disco was so closely associated with black culture and gay culture), current critics rail against a world hopelessly corrupted by hip-hop excess. Since before Sean Combs became Puff Daddy, we've been hearing that mainstream hip-hop was too flashy, too crass, too violent, too ridiculous, unlike those hard-working rock 'n' roll stars we used to have. (This, of course, is one of the most pernicious things about rockism: it finds a way to make rock 'n' roll seem boring.)

Much of the most energetic resistance to rockism can be found online, in blogs and on critic-infested sites like ilovemusic.com, where debates about rockism have become so common that the term itself is something of a running joke. When the editors of a blog called Rockcritics Daily noted that rockism was "all the rage again," they posted dozens of contradictory citations, proving that no one really agrees on what the term means. (By the time you read this article, a slew of indignant refutations and addenda will probably be available online.)

But as more than one online ranter has discovered, it's easier to complain about rockism than it is to get rid of it. You literally can't fight rockism, because the language of righteous struggle is the language of rockism itself. You can argue that the shape-shifting feminist hip-pop of Ms. Aguilera is every bit as radical as the punk rock of the 1970's (and it is), but then you haven't challenged any of the old rockist questions (starting with: Who's more radical?), you've just scribbled in some new answers.

The challenge isn't merely to replace the old list of Great Rock Albums with a new list of Great Pop Songs - although that would, at the very least, be a nice change of pace. It's to find a way to think about a fluid musical world where it's impossible to separate classics from guilty pleasures. The challenge is to acknowledge that music videos and reality shows and glamorous layouts can be as interesting - and as influential - as an old-fashioned album.

In the end, the problem with rockism isn't that it's wrong: all critics are wrong sometimes, and some critics (now doesn't seem like the right time to name names) are wrong almost all the time. The problem with rockism is that it seems increasingly far removed from the way most people actually listen to music.

Are you really pondering the phony distinction between "great art" and a "guilty pleasure" when you're humming along to the radio? In an era when listeners routinely - and fearlessly - pick music by putting a 40-gig iPod on shuffle, surely we have more interesting things to worry about than that someone might be lip-synching on "Saturday Night Live" or that some rappers gild their phooey. Good critics are good listeners, and the problem with rockism is that it gets in the way of listening. If you're waiting for some song that conjures up soul or honesty or grit or rebellion, you might miss out on Ciara's ecstatic electro-pop, or Alan Jackson's sly country ballads, or Lloyd Banks's felonious purr.

Rockism makes it hard to hear the glorious, incoherent, corporate-financed, audience-tested mess that passes for popular music these days. To glorify only performers who write their own songs and play their own guitars is to ignore the marketplace that helps create the music we hear in the first place, with its checkbook-chasing superproducers, its audience-obsessed executives and its cred-hungry performers.

To obsess over old-fashioned stand-alone geniuses is to forget that lots of the most memorable music is created despite multimillion-dollar deals and spur-of-the-moment collaborations and murky commercial forces. In fact, a lot of great music is created because of those things. And let's stop pretending that serious rock songs will last forever, as if anything could, and that shiny pop songs are inherently disposable, as if that were necessarily a bad thing. Van Morrison's "Into the Music" was released the same year as the Sugarhill Gang's "Rapper's Delight"; which do you hear more often?

That doesn't mean we should stop arguing about Ms. Simpson, or even that we should stop sharing the 60-second clip that may just be this year's best music video. But it does mean we should stop taking it for granted that music isn't as good as it used to be, and it means we should stop being shocked that the rock rules of the 1970's are no longer the law of the land.

No doubt our current obsessions and comparisons will come to seem hopelessly blinkered as popular music mutates some more - listeners and critics alike can't do much more than struggle to keep up. But let's stop trying to hammer young stars into old categories. We have lots of new music to choose from - we deserve some new prejudices, too.


Posts: 4262 | From: Charlotte, N.C., USA | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DavidE
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What the ???? - okay the first article I get; but the second, who cares - music was good and also sucked in the 70's, just like today - rockism what? who cares.

And comparing the Sugarhill's Gang Rapper's Delight against Van Morrisons Into the Music - on what the whole album or the single (oh there was no Into the Music single, because that was just the name of the lp)....but other 1979 releases I hear more...Van Halen II - Led Zeppelin In Through The Out Door - Pink Floyds THE WALL. There you go, which do you hear more - Sugarhill or Floyd??? (The Wall was released in early December 1979).

But some of the younger folks don't go to hear the artists sing, they go to scream and fall in love with the singers (that's why so many little girls carry signs that say "MARRY ME BENJI" to Good Charolette concerts (hey, Sum 41 opened). And little boys and older men (not me) go to see what Britney is or is not wearing. It sells, it makes money for the business which is what it is all about.

Pop music is also broadway - The Lion King (Elton John) - We Will Rock You (Queen) - Billy Joel has one (can't remember the name) and there is even a Springsteen Broadway or off Broadway in the works.

It does seem a lot of people pump in something. Hell even Evanesence pumps in keyboards, only during the encore song My Imortal did Amy (or anyone) actually played on a keyboard. As I believe, with pumped in music (ELO was also accused of this), the acceptable standard in the 70's was 20% - more than that, and it was to be stated. This wasn't law, just a hopeful standard that the community seemed to agree upon, whatever that community was, record execs, artists, critics of that time.

One can't help but wonder if Milli Vanilli came out now, would they stil have the Grammy?

All music is not art, only some of it is. Music is supposed to do many things, make us think, laugh, dance, and of course argue over just what music is and what sucks and what doesn't (oh, that could be art also).

[This message has been edited by DavidE (edited November 02, 2004).]


Posts: 2246 | From: Palmdale, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DanJ
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Milli Vanilli is a different sort of animal. It's one thing to go on Satuday Night Live and lip-synch your own songs. Milli Vanilli didn't even sing the songs they lip-synched to. That was manufacturing an artist to the extreme. I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't been happenning more.

I wouldn't mind so much at a concert if it wasn't obvious. Shania has already been tagged as heavy lip-synching (I remember that half time football show she did a couple years ago when she lowered her mic and started laughing while the song carried on.) When we saw her last May, I had people telling me I was full of it when I said to my wife I was sure Shania lip-synched a good half dozen or more songs. I mean, she came out for her first song, and sounded so great, full voice, awesome. Then her next song sounded like she had laringitis. Then her third song was full vocal power again.

I have heard that in concerts, they sometimes pipe in a recorded vocal that the artist actually sings along with, to make the voice sound fuller, instead of just straight lip-synching. Maybe this is what Shania was doing that night here. Either way, it wasn't all just her.


Posts: 2367 | From: London, Canada | Registered: Apr 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DavidE
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If they pipe in vocals, makes you wonder why they have background singers doesn't it. Michelle Branch pipes in background vocals of herself which allows her not to have background vocalists. Now, on the other hand, Paula Cole hired a keyboardist who also doubled as background vocalist on her Amen tour - previous to that it was just her and her drummer (with a guitarist on the Cowboy song).

But you got to respect Queen when they did Boheiman Rapsody live - when the got to the whole gallieo...figero, etc., stuff, and piped in the music and vocals, the stage went black, no lip syncs, no nothing, just a dark stage, until a single spot light shown on Brian May for his guitar bit.


Posts: 2246 | From: Palmdale, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
touron2003
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I think it's hard to match the electricity of a truly live performance. It isn't perfection that counts, but rather the chemistry and spontinaeity of the performance. You can't manufacture that without it sounding...manufactured. Keep it as live as possible. I think Elton is right, though he took a some unnecessary digs at Madonna (who cares if she is taking voice lessons?).

I love Bob Seger's live album music like Katmandu on Live Bullet, or Nine Tonight on Nine Tonight Live. The songs rock, the whole albums are great and you can feel the life in them. Doing a completely live performance and recording it is gutsy and requires talent, but the end product can be a real musical treasure. You don't connect with the crowd by doing alot of preprogrammed stuff. You connect by playing your heart out for the crowd.

Musicians like Springsteen are great but get lionized too much in my opinion. The music shouldn't take on a proportion beyond what it is. He's a great performer, but he isn't the working man's spokesman--I can speak for myself thanks.

I was a child in the 70's and I still think some of the best pop came from the 60's, 70's, and 80's. Alot of the 90's stuff was too drab and serious.

Coldplay writes good songs, but I don't think I'll want to listen to it 10 years from now.

[This message has been edited by touron2003 (edited November 04, 2004).]


Posts: 683 | From: seattle,wa,usa | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DavidE
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Yeah, I remember seeing Bob Seger perform Night Moves live and the hairs on the back of my neck stood up during the little break on that song. I love live music with all its little mistakes, it makes it real and fun.

But one persons fun is anothers nightmare. As long as someone likes it, I can live with it. I remember the Killroy Was Here tour by Styx, and it was disappointing because it seemed like a broadway show, but now that is the norm with pop.

Yes, I have seen classic rock and have seen Britney and Nsync live - I have a teenage daughter; and each is different and fun in its own way. (I also had some little girl threaten to kick my ass at the Nsync concert while I try to scramble up the packed stairway to the beer stand.

Oh, and another question, if in the 70's music from the 50's were consdered oldies, what songs are considered oldies now?

[This message has been edited by DavidE (edited November 04, 2004).]


Posts: 2246 | From: Palmdale, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DanJ
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Our Oldies AM station here plays 50's and 60's. The classic rock station plays anything up until about 10 years ago, with a focus on 70's and 80's.
Posts: 2367 | From: London, Canada | Registered: Apr 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tjmat
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Rockism has existed in every decade genre of music. In the fifties when white group singers took already recorded music from the likes of the platters, ftas domino, etc. and made it tamer and more marketable. In the sixties, it was the Brill Building going after the same effect. the 70's was already stated. The 80's glam metal and atrists like tiffany and debbie gibson. 90's already mentioned and the domination of britney spears and nsync like groups in the late nineties to today says for the rest. The perfect example is the status of the "guitar god syndrome" as i call it :

50's: Chuck Berry
60's: Jimi Hendrix
70's: Jimmy Page
80's: Eddie Van Halen
90's to present: NOBODY! (seed of guitar god might have been planted courtesy of groups like the Darkness)

If you want to mention other instraments then:

drums: Neil Purt, Gonzo (mind blank on name of Def Leppard's drummer)
Keyboards : Elton John, Jerry Lee Lewis Dennis DeYoung, Little Richard, Getty Lee
Bass : Steve Vai, Getty Lee
Brass: Earth, Wind and Fire
Sax: Clarence Clemons (Regular visitor to Keys, BIG MAN!)
Recording Skills: Beatles, Pink Floyd

and for the rap arguement: Sugar Hill Gang and the REAL OLD school rappers made their own music.

Each time rockism appreas a new genre of rock appears.

60's - Beatles and british invasion
70's - Led zeppelin, punk and disco
80's - New wave, rap and heavy metal
90's - Nirvana and resurgance/domination of Aerosmith and Eric Clapton
2000's - possibilities: rap/rock like limp bizkit and kid rock, resurgance of punk like Green day, and resurfacing of new artiss who play music like norah jones.

It just a matter of time now.

[This message has been edited by tjmat (edited November 04, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by tjmat (edited November 04, 2004).]


Posts: 598 | From: Parksville, NY | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MusicMeister
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Rockism is Newton's first law of motion applied to the music industry. Everytime the music industry moves in a new direction because they're acted upon by an outside force some people fight it because it's new, some fight it because they don't like it, and others just because they're looking for a fight.

You could even say it's 'bigotry' at it's finest. It's not what I like so it's crap. Sounds like 'rockism' to me.

I think live shows should be live. If they sing along w/ the vocals to add depth then fine. But don't lip sync because your dance routine is too difficult. Drop the dance routine and prove you know how to sing. BTW, I don't remember complaints of MC Hammer lip syncing and his dance routines were non-stop. If you can't do both, don't.


Posts: 24 | From: Penscola, Florida, USA | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
knightshow
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You know, that's why I've always loved going to see groups live. Triumph, with their little three piece band, Rush, Bob Seger, Billy Joel, Elton John, Queensryche (WOW) and so many others. Because they DON'T sound like studio musicians. Fleetwood Mac is as good an example as any. Cause they pour their heart and soul into the show... and sometimes, they sound like Sh*T! instrumentals off, vocals off key, but that's the essence of live performances.

I had to laugh at the Styx comment above. Dennis DeYoung ALWAYS wanted to be BROADWAY. Look at his performances in video they released from "Paradise Theater"... They were good, but they never recovered their HUNGRY rock sound from the LP "Pieces of Eight".

As for the the guitar god, I really have to nominate Chris DeGarmo of Queensryche. He was soooo good, that when he left the band, they STILL are having trouble filling his shoes. AND a terrific vocalist. Kelly is a good musician, but he would try to capture the genius of Chris, and the other band members would look over at him and mouth "What are you DOING?"


Posts: 3332 | From: Independence, mo | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brian
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Knightshow,you are so right about Fleetwood Mac.
Posts: 789 | From: Audubon, Pa. | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DavidE
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Yeah, big difference from Pieces Of Eight to Killroy, must have been a girl talking me into going to the Killroy tour - -
But Queensryche at the House Of Blues Anaheim, yeah!!!!!

I know it's only pop music, but I don't like it, I love it, I love it, yes I do....not. okay, maybe one or two songs.


Posts: 2246 | From: Palmdale, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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