No actually I believe you are missing the point. This new “dark” music is no different than any other. EVERY song out there has something to offend SOMEONE. I’ll end my posts on this thread and take my cause over to the “Not Gonna” thread. Censorship is still censorship. Once it starts it never ever stops.
BTW Dog. When all your regulars have grown tired of the same old song and dance every night of the week who’s going to take their place? I’ll take any answers if you please on the other thread. And L’Op I would love to let you hear “The Rose” 6000 times. Bet you’d be begging for some Nirvana or maybe even some Limp Bizkit.
The third Limp Bizkit song and I'll have a headache - 10 I would deffinately be gagging - by 20 I would most likely be puking. Doesn't Durst know any other words?
Saying that I think I'll sing Re-Arranged this week.
I went and looked at both Eminem's web site and Limpbiskit.com. Warning - Limpbiskit.com is a disaster area - window after blooming window and no sign of Limp Bizkit. I think someone got the site just to see how bloody irritating they could be - one more notch against Limp Bizkit.
On the other hand Eminem is really really cute. After going there I have a even higher regard for him. Not that I am/was a big Eminem fan - but the guy's yummy!
Ok L'Op I give! I have tried everything to I can think of to provoke you short of misspellings, bad grammar and using the word RULES but alas I have failed. No really I don't like all the cursing and such it is actually quite a bore. It is much more fun to play the word game to get a point across. Some of the songs aren’t really that bad if done in the right venue and with the right accent on the curse words. I realize that some singer want to use fortissimo when they sing F#*k in a song and it makes it even more annoying when it’s the only word they know in the entire song.
Thanks for the entertainment all. And L’Op I’ll think of you every time I hear someone murder “The Rose”, that'll be "our" special song .
[This message has been edited by puppetmaster (edited February 13, 2001).]
So here's one for you, Tool's Anema. You wnat to talk about prmiscuous use of the F word, this is a prime example. I have it in our book with a disclaimer telling the singer they must seek permission to sing such a song first. This allows us to have a look around and see what the clientel is on a particular night (sometimes we're full of headbangers, sometimes they all wanna be patsy cline (gag). If the crowd is right, let 'em sing if not, change the tune. At least doing it this way you may keep that new singer coming back by them at least having hope of singing theor fav's once in a while and you may not completely offend the regular audience.
Incidentally, L'opera Voice is a man??!! That's a surprise, and not a pleasant one either. You've certainly got the tunnel vision and poison tongue of a bitter old woman. Hey, who's wearing the dress at your wedding? Both of you?
Yo opera, just responding to your comments in this thread you made and that were made about you. You really sound like you've come form the dark ages. You're just full of disparaging remarks about any artists that don't suit your tastes. I'm not a big Bizkit or M&M fan but they do make excellent music for their genres and with Karaoke being such a potpourri of music people need to be more tolerant to share in the different sounds, even if they are somewhat profane in a conservative mindset.
[This message has been edited by Alice Cooper's Alter Ego (edited February 14, 2001).]
You haven't been here long enough to make any reasonable assessment of my likes and dislikes now have you, Skippy?
I'm sure there's a venue somewhere for KJ's who allow absolutely anything to be played, but as a bouncer in a karaoke bar, I find that the people who sings the aggressive and angry songs are the same morons whom I usually end up throwing out for fighting.
Therefore, some songs will be removed from the books. Period.
I have to say, I'm very sure that L'Op is voicing the opinion of more than just himself in the feelings many of us have about the profanity in certain songs today.
I applaud Sound Choice for marking the disks and the songs on the label so that each host can make their own decision concerning these songs and the places they work.
Some of our shows cater to a younger audience. These are the songs they are growing up with and want to sing, and they get to sing them. At others with an older clientele, who are offended by them, we use our judgement. Believe it or not, several of the hosts that work for us have asked us to totally remove certain songs from availablity - and they like the songs! I think I removed three. All the others were marked appropriately as explicit or suggestive or X rated lyrics and a disclaimer was put into the books giving the host the final say as to whether these songs will be performed.
I really don't think those songs are appropriate for private Sweet 16 parties and the like. In the end, the customer has the final say.
When we were DJing, it was not unusual for the sponsors to request certain songs not to be played at junior high and high school dances (Mony, Mony comes to mind - not for the lyrics but for what people yell during the song). I never used "Strokin'" at wedding receptions due to the suggestive lyrics that I considered unnecessary in a mixed age crowd. The customer has the right to make this request, as does any bar or lounge that hires us to work for them. They pay the bill.
Money talks and the customer is always right - to quote a few cliques.
You can blast me all you want. But, using a little propriety for your individual circumstances is the only way to go, in my opinion.
a bouncer named opera voice, now that's rich as I presume your diet probably is as well! I believe I have been around long enough to express such an opinion, I've seen your postings on the KW board as well. My point is people should get over themselves. Profanity really isn't such a big deal, society has just taught us it is. Bad words have origins way back. The origin of the F word goes back to the Anglo Saxons and the word Fokker, which means to bang against or beat. Because these people spoke what was deemed a lower form of dialect they were dicriminated against and ridiculed. Discrimination isn't a nice thing and thats pretty much what stuff like that boils down to. Of course I do support the above comments of whomever pays the bills may choose what is and what is not sung, I just don't agree with it. Its music, its entertainment. Society needs to get off its ivory tower and relax.
Posts: 531 | Registered: Feb 2001
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That's interesting. The legend I'm more familiar with is Fornication Under Consent of the King.
And a side note, Eminem just got nailed for carrying a concealed weapon, and is facing charges of brandishing a weapon. Do you think his fans are any smarter than him? (well, maybe some, but certainly not all)
Slime begets slime. Who do you think is more likely to create a problem in a venue? A 50 year old man who sings Frank Sinatra every night. . . or a 24 year old who sings Limp Bizkit, Korn, or Emimem?
Yes, Alter ego, I'm a bouncer, and sometimes a KJ. I told you you didn't know me well enough to make an accurate assessment. I was in the military for 11 years, Security for three years, and I'm an avid Kenpo gakusei.
Well L'op I happen to know a number of nice folk who sing and listen to Korn or Eminem or whatever who are tremenously cool people who wouldn't harm flies. Its funny you should bring up a 50 year old sining Frank and a 24 year old singing something not from the dark ages. I have a a 50 someting fella at one of our gigs who reularly sings Mack the Knife/My way/ New York New York, biggest ass**** that comes in the bar, gets thrown out at least once a month for picking fights. Ass****'s aren't made by the music they sing but by the person they are. Just cuase you sing some heavy stuff doesn't ,make you a rowdy, it just makes you current. There is room for everyone at every gig and every genre of music, unfortunately there are too many tighties like you with butplugs up their backsides for everyone to really enjoy whats going on. Lighten up and take the plug out there Skippydoo and stop sucking on your chocolate starfish. The new world order is coming whether you like it or not. The future of Karaoke is not old standards and fluffy crap, although there will be room for it. The future is current music, so you had better put the seatbelt on and prepare for the ride cause I'm sure for you it'll be a rough one.
This is great! I needed a good laugh! This is like comedy hour! Hee! Hee!
Puppetmaster has been going to my shows since the day I introduced him to karaoke. He loves the new music and I have recently been stocking up on alot of it, not just because of puppetmaster but because I have alot of other singers who love to sing it. I did not seem to lose anyone in the club becuase of the music. And I do monitor the reaction of the crowd when songs are sung (all types of songs).
I am not totally crazy about alot of the new stuff but that does'nt mean that other people are'nt. I personally love rock & roll and that is what my show is mainly made up of. By the way, I am also against censorship!
Wow I need to check in more often!!! This is good stuff to DISCUSS but lets not get carried away (flaming people).
To Puppetmaster: Yes I've thought about these people being tomorrows regulars,and I HATE censorship (even when I'm the one who is offended). After 10+ years in this business I've seen lots of changes. And this too will pass. I didn't mention though, that at the show I mentioned where the mgr is killing certain songs the singers are absolutely HORRIBLE!!! They sing like little quiet school girls except when "the bad words" show up then all they do is scream (thank God for compressors) That's not why he's banning these songs though...According to him (and this could open another can of worms)the Va.ABC=(alcohol bev control board) actually has a rule that requires the club to be be in control of everything that goes on in the club including:rude vulgar behavior. That could be his excuse but I think I saw something on the abc web site that said something to that effect.I'll check it out.
Others may think I'm stuck in past decades,(I don't)but I have mellowed a little.
Here's what does bother me about this stuff. People sometimes seem to have NO conscience what so ever. Here's what I mean. If I want to sing a song with F in it I' ll look around and make a judgement call.If there's one person in the room who I THINK will be offended I sing something else. Yes, I have some people who ask if I think it's OK to do a certain song, and I'll give them an honest opinion.But these jerks who think I OWE them the RIGHT to sing, say Aenema by Tool just so they can be as offensive as possible to as many people as possible have no respect for humanity. (albeit bar humanity)
I am considering the same thing Egkse is with my next book printing. I really don't want to though.
About the language thing: you are absolutely right about the customers who leave.Yes some of them cuss like sailors but they are using everyday language (no that doesn't make it right or justify it in anyway) and yes I can cuss with the best of 'em but there is just something inhumane about SOME songs like aenema. When you're having a conversation with someone they usually get a feel for your comfort level of word usage. When someone is on stage spewing it in your face thats quite different.
Censorship sucks!!! But it doesn't offend me as much as SOME of this "dark" stuff.And the fact that I just admitted that scares me.
Hey now! This is not what I had in mind when I posed my questions to L'Op and Dog.
To Alice's Alter Ego....Mellowwwwwwww dude! L'Op is one of those guys you love to hate. If he weren’t spreading his rapier wit on these pages, I wouldn't bother to check 'em out. I actually find him quite entertaining on this and other forums. Give him some time, He’ll grow on ya.
To Cheapskore……Got anything new and really angry for me to sing next time I’m out? I promise I won't start any fights or anything!
And lastly Leigh……Want to let the rest of us in on the alias?
Now play nice. Just because we have opposing views doesn’t mean we can’t be civil towards each other. As a matter of fact Cheapskore and I disagree all the time and still manage to be friends.
Ok, I'll put the knives away, for now. Can't see L'op gorwing on anybody though cept maybe as a barnacle but I digress. He does have a razor wit but he also likes to put a "t" in front of it when he's preaching his gospel. Anyway, call me millow yellow for the moment.
Hey Leigh, who's got the alias? Everyone? Please explain. As far as I know I'm the only one expressing opinions for myself.
I'm a "retired" kj. As I posted somewhere here, I made it plain in my song books what songs I personally didn't want to hear ever again.
I'm 42 years old. My musical tastes have ranged in different stages of my life from harmony groups like the early Beatles, Beach Boys & The Association to Alice Cooper, AC/DC and some Metallica. My father hated my music, and I was under the impression that since rock & roll would be around forever, I wouldn't ever be in his shoes. Ha.
There's a lot of music out there that I like. I can tolerate the pretty boy singers. I can tolerate some rap, as long as it's in a light and/or meaningful vein (i.e. Coolio, Will Smith). I liked a lot of the 90's grunge stuff. A lot of it sounds the same to me. Very little musical innovation, IMHO.
My very serious question, and one I've talked about with me new 16-year-old stepson, is "what is the attraction?" What is appealing to kids today when a guy like Eminem touts wife beating, or a rap band touts killing cops? What is the attraction to Adam Sandler singing songs filled with swear words ? (What is appealing about Adam Sandler in the first place? - but I digress). Please don't tell me it's "the way things are out there." I lived through Viet Nam. I lived through riots at my siblings' college when they called home in fear of their lives.
I would agree that kids today have to learn about sex and violence earlier than I do. Kudos to MTV, and Jerry Springer and Rikki Lake and COPS and all the other commercial broadcasters (who are all about my age or older) who put this sensationalized crap on TV.
Times change. What we define as "civilization" evolves. I'm not in favor of censorship. Mr. M. has a right to be the angry little boy spewing whatever it is he spews. Just because I don't like it doesn't mean he should have to stop. I can always choose not to listen to it, or leave a karaoke venue when a singer gets up to do his stuff.
But somebody 'splain to me: what is it that makes this "good" in someone else's opinion?
I still stick to my view that "you can release you anger, and exercise your deamons as a singer or artist without just being dark. A song prompting you to party pulls you out of the gutter faster than a song promting you to "give me something to break". And from want I've seen so far, this thread has gone from a couple of guys talking about missing the music they liked and questioning the music that is out, to all out warfare. I totally disagree with the songs put out by bands like Limp bizcut, Manson and the lot. But I also didn't like N.W.A. and Easy-E in the 80's. Differnt genre, same attitude. But I will fight Censorship 100%. Control of what kids listen to is up to the parents. Control of what is sang in a bar is up to the owner. I may not like what is out, and deffinatly don't agree with it. But that won't change the world of music. I just hope that there is always a place(even if it is alot smaller now) for the music that has help me through the years.
Posts: 342 | From: Indianapolis, IN USA | Registered: Nov 2000
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First of all: DOES ART IMITATE LIFE OR DOES LIFE IMITATE ART? It's a paradox. Just to let you know, I'm 23, I am very retro when it comes to music, and though I like Tool, Tori Amos, and Nine Inch Nails, Judy Garland, Peggy Lee, Blondie, Irene Cara, anything from and Andrew Lloyd Webber musical and I could care less for most "gangsta rap" and a lot of stuff (especially with excessive profanity, though, a some of my musical tastes include artists with some profane lyrics) that my 14-year-old sister listens to. When my mother was younger, she was forbidden to play/listen to the song "Yummy Yummy Yummy(I've got love in my tummy)" because my gramdmother thought that it was a dirty song about premarital sex and unwed pregnancy. And, my Mom being in her mid 40s, really enraged her parents with Black Sabbath and Led Zepplin in her teens. At the time, to them, those bands were scandalous. The Beatles were scorned for "having long hair" and when that remark was made, it didn't even touch the collar of their shirts, they just didn't sport crew cuts like the adult authority deemed acceptable for the day's youth.
It's all a matter of perspective.
I may not think that something is dirty or bad, but you might and you might offend me conversely with something that I may feel is sexist-whatever. There will always be some song or artist that makes your skin crawl. If the bulk of your business is offended, by all means, remove it for business's sake. I could keep some "offensive" things at my venue because we have a crowd that's 80% under 30. If you have an older, conservative crowd- they don't want to here the same stuff my crowd DEMANDS.
Do what gains you the most respect at YOUR venue and keeps your patrons and employers happy. If Eminem is not what they want to hear-don't play it. I don't want to hear it, but, if it makes them happy... I'll just tell myself that I could be listening to MUZAK in an office doing inventory of the supply closet. I'll put up with "The Real Slim Shady" if it means that my crowd is happy. I'll use the disc as a frizbee if they're not.
------------------ Sarah Mc
-Life is a song, so sing it! http://karaoke.dj.net/sarah.html
Keifer, Do you remember when you were younger? Did you ever listen to that certain band that made your mom and dad scream and rant and rave? I’ll never forget the look on my mom’s face the first time she saw a Kiss album cover. She swore that they were Satan in the flesh. I loved it! I found something that made my elders uncomfortable, it made ‘em squirm and it made me feel good. I had power! That is exactly what your 16 year old stepson sees in the new “dark music”. The conservative media condemns it. It makes you and his mother uncomfortable. What more could a kid ask for?
I listen to it because I want to stay on top of current rock music. Also by listening to it my kids don’t think it is anything to get excited about, after all if “Dad” listens to it then it must be “Uncool”! In effect I can control what my kids listen to by letting them know that I listen to the same thing their friends do. It is not taboo therefore not worth their time or trouble.
As for what makes it good? What makes ANY music good? It is only music. It does not drive rational people to act out in a violent manner. Instead it is a catalyst for those with antisocial behaviors and pre-existing tendencies towards violent actions. I personally believe that Art imitates life, at least in the sane and rational world (Once I visit that place I’ll let you all know for sure!).
BTW don’t believe that Coolio is all that enlightening. He may just be able to say things in a way that makes it sound a little better.
I don't think that I'm "smarter" than the next person, I just have a strong drive to learn and debate my educated opinions.
And I'd like to add... as for gangbanging songs, check out the lyrics of the ever popular classic, "Mack the Knife", how's that for violence. It just seems that as our manners lax, we have just begun speaking/writing with much more raw lyrics, but the message is the same "on the sidewalk Sunday mornin' lies a body oozin' life, someone's sneakin' 'round the corner, could that someone be Mack the Knife?" ..."Oh the cement's just for weight dear"
And how about "Stagger Lee"?
------------------ Sarah Mc
-Life is a song, so sing it! http://karaoke.dj.net/sarah.html
puppetmaster: You make some very good points.
Since I'm new to the family, my stepson thinks it's cool that I listen to modern music. He even asks me for advice when listening to vintage rock.
Sarah Mac, I'm sure you're right when you say that it's the way things are said rather than the concept or thought of the lyrics. There's lots of very old blues music that has a lot of pretty blatant lyrics having to do with wife beating, now that I think of it.
Ahh well, I guess my previous post was just an old(er) man's raving. That's sad.