posted
Once again, where is KIAA? I'd rather be killed by a single eagle than slowly pecked to death by hungry chickens.
...and to whom do I pay the tribute for the discs that are to be shifted, that were by the grace of the Gods, laid into my hands from companies now deceased? Do I have rights to them, or must I destroy them in order to satiate the ravenous and unending appetites of the karaoke Gods?
Posts: 103 | From: Boonton, NJ | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
We are the State, and the Federal Government...You and I OWN the roads and the land that they are on, and the water they pass over, and the mountains they pass through. They are not owned by companies. Therefore they are regulated! I fear anything with unlimited power. Ultimately, the FCC regulates the cable companies, the Internet, radio, television, cell phones, etc. Who regulates Karaoke companies?
When we have paid to shift our GD+G's and we have purchased no more from a certain manufacturer, will we still need to be re-audited by them, even though we've added nothing to our collection from their company?
OR - Is this to be a never ending Manufacturer's tax on our businesses?
quote:Originally posted by DJ-Mace: Who regulates Karaoke companies?
When we have paid to shift our GD+G's and we have purchased no more from a certain manufacturer, will we still need to be re-audited by them, even though we've added nothing to our collection from their company?
OR - Is this to be a never ending Manufacturer's tax on our businesses?
We need to know the rules.
We need to know the costs.
We need to know the limits.
Period.
DJ-Mace, with a statement like that you're bound to shake the heads of the Sound Choice staff. How else is this company gonna profit if they can't find a legitimate means to put an end to piracy once and for all? We'll never know. Maybe the only way they could ever make a profit was through the release of a new disc and I tell you, we've been waiting for that for a long time (that last sentence could also probably be a good bit of sarcasm towards what the pirates want SC to do to not be profitable, hence the release of a new disc from Sound Choice seems to be a double-edge sword on their profits these days).
Posts: 279 | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
It is really very simple if you don't like the idea of paying for an audit and getting permission to shift the media to computer use then don't pay it.
If you want to do what is right then do it.
If you think it is wrong for Sound Choice, Chartbuster etc. to file suit on those that shift without permission or steal from them then wait and if they file against you fight them in court.
The KIAA is still a functioning body and you may get your wish they may very well soon be starting an audit and fee program that will cover all of the manus. Until that time comes just take your chances.
-------------------- Cheerleader for the efforts of Sound Choice Chartbuster and Stellar. Posts: 158 | From: Virginia | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Thunder... I will pay, but not without knowing what I am paying for; only a fool would do that.
AGAIN...
Who regulates Karaoke companies?
When we have paid to shift our GD+G's and we have purchased no more from a certain manufacturer, will we still need to be re-audited by them, even though we've added nothing to our collection from their company?
OR - Is this to be a never ending Manufacturer's tax on our businesses?
posted
Part of what I am asking is, are we indeed paying to shift our CD+G media, or is this an on-going tax for the privilage of RENTING a digital copy?
Posts: 103 | From: Boonton, NJ | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
This is now starting to get funny, do some research on the GEM series agreement as well as the Pro series and Hard drive set from CB and read the licensing agreement, they already have your answers. Those series are the only ones that were delivered ina pure digital form.
Anything else YOU sifted and is subject to audit be it every year, every 10 years at whatever the cost is. call it a tax, call it a fee, call it a part of doing business, call it advertisement. (just like having to pay to go to the GM school to be a GM certified mechanic), (just like the money politicians pay ever election cycle to be reelected to their jobs), (just like a union employee pays union dues every week, month or year to keep their jobs), (or just like the fee you pay every year to be listed in the Yellow pages), Just like the fee you pay every year to have a web page), Just like the fee you pay every month for the privledge of using the internet), Just like the cable bill for the use of cable TV), (Just like your phone bill, you bought the phone and yet the company charges you every month to use it.
You paid them once why do they continue to charge you for the privledge of using it?
-------------------- Cheerleader for the efforts of Sound Choice Chartbuster and Stellar. Posts: 158 | From: Virginia | Registered: Nov 2010
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GM certified mechanic: Learns NEW skills, for NEW Equipment, and NEW cars so they need re-training, and re-certification. They are not being re-certified on the same old cars! Proves MY point...
I AM a union empolyee... UWUA AFL-CIO Local 375 Please... union dues are for protection, not a protection racket. (and they are worth it)
The internet is a SERVICE! Oops so is a webpage!
I don't need the yellow pages, and don't use them. It's a digital world. ***** AND we are talking about shifting...NOT pure digital right? I use CD+G, So no it does not answer my questions.
Sorry if I sound snippy, but it seems that no one is reading my questions and answering them, they seem to be reading out of the Sound Choice Bible.
Posts: 103 | From: Boonton, NJ | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
Let's say that I was "certified" April 26th 2005 and didn't add any Sound Choice songs since then. My book only changed because I continued to buy Top Tunes. So I chose not to become Re-certified because their (SC's) standing in my collection is unchanged. If they still demand re-certification, it IS is a "protection racket" no matter what they say.
That is as bad as the Pirates.
Posts: 103 | From: Boonton, NJ | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
Call it an audit or call it an inspection. How do they know your library hasn't changed? They don't, hence the audit/inspection. I'm sure you would like your bank to be audited or the buildings you go into to be inspected, not to mention restaurants or your car for safety.
If you don't want an inspection, stick with discs.
Posts: 391 | From: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Shifting is a right reserved to the owner of the content and you ain't it. To do so requires expressed permission of said content owner, that is what you get when you go through and pass an audit. If you are running a computer system without expressed permission of the respective manus you are in violation and can be subject to suit.
However they do have pure digital systems that are designed for computer use those that purchase and use those exclusively would not be subject to an audit or shifting permission.
If you have not added any Sound Choice content since 2005 you really don't have anything to worry about so don't let it concern you. Of course 2005 is also when piracy went full bore and loaded hard drives became readily available as well.
Union Dues = protection racket period!
Since you see the manus charging for an audit as the a protection racket then it really shouldn't bother you at all.
Everyone has answered every one of your questions (that make any sense) the problem is you keep trying to change the questions to get a different answer. But the answers are still going to be the same from those who have been through the audits or know they are legit, and run a legit business.
-------------------- Cheerleader for the efforts of Sound Choice Chartbuster and Stellar. Posts: 158 | From: Virginia | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Oh...and who was it that was talking about pulling my purchasing history? THAT is how they'ed know silly! They want all of the bread and none of the crusts. Can't have your cake and eat it too!
Yeh... I think I'll be talking to the Government types about this.
Two kinds of pirates.
Posts: 103 | From: Boonton, NJ | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
...and that also tells me you've never been able to land a union job... too bad for you, and your family! Without unions, I'd hate to see what the minimum wage would be now!
Posts: 103 | From: Boonton, NJ | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
Been in a union nothing but a bunch of pirates.
-------------------- Cheerleader for the efforts of Sound Choice Chartbuster and Stellar. Posts: 158 | From: Virginia | Registered: Nov 2010
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Second, you purchase a piece of plastic but what is on it never belongs to you. You are allowed to use it in the form it is sold to you in. To change it's form you need expressed permission to do so.
Pulling your purchase history is not a problem, but if you are pirating material there wouldn't be a purchase history and it would still require an audit.
-------------------- Cheerleader for the efforts of Sound Choice Chartbuster and Stellar. Posts: 158 | From: Virginia | Registered: Nov 2010
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Someone who makes a big show of spouting off the same lines and points you are trying to make, was just offered $250 in cash and having their audits paid for for both Sound Choice and Chartbuster, the funds were already available as was an auditor who was ready to go to his location.
He turned it down! LOL He has stated over and over that he was legal...... I don't think so!
-------------------- Cheerleader for the efforts of Sound Choice Chartbuster and Stellar. Posts: 158 | From: Virginia | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
"The workers united will never be defeated"
"United we bargain, divided we beg"
Union slogans in Australia.
Without union any single employee would never be able to stand up against the might of employers or big business. The workers united (in the forms of unions) addresses the imbalance of bargaining power between those who own capital as well as the means of production and those who are exploited by those so called employers.
The capitalist system which replaces the feudal system is nothing but a tone down system of slavery where the slaves live independent lives yet still exploited by their masters in exchange of a salary or wage for their labour which they sell in the market place. The workers who do not control the means of production or posses sufficient capital are forced to sell their labour in the market place in exchange of capital at a market rate in order to live independently rather become fully dependent on their masters.
It is through organised labour (unions) the workers are guaranteed a decent minimum wage and decent working conditions as well as a more strong bargaining power in the market place. Having said that that doesn't mean union bosses could not abuse their power and work for their narrow selfish individual interests rather than the interests of their union members.
Posts: 288 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
he...WHAT!?! he turned it DOWN!!! Is he a jack ass???
I'll tell you what... IF ANYONE makes me THAT offer and I will jump on it so fast it'll make sparks!
I'm not against Audits, I am against paying in perpetuity because the exact same order of 1's and 0's that appear on that piece of plastic would also appear on a chip! The information is 100% identical.
How do they know if my CD+G's aren't copied from a copy of a copy? So why am I safe there?
I am going to use my new JB 199 II very soon... I will pay, but I'm going to keep fighting!
...and thanks for the union back-up, it was well said.
Posts: 103 | From: Boonton, NJ | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
"However they do have pure digital systems that are designed for computer use those that purchase and use those exclusively would not be subject to an audit or shifting permission."
How would they know if anything new (or old) was added to this? How would they know if someone shifted their CD+G's into this laptop? They wouldn't... but because someone spent a few thousand NEW / MORE dollars they look the other way?
What this tells me is: "Buy our new stuff, or we'll make you PAY forever!"
Posts: 103 | From: Boonton, NJ | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
They would know because there is a registration number and different Logo in use in the pure digital releases, they know who buys them and when. If someone else's music turns up on your computer they go after not only you but the original purchaser as well.
Since the digital systems contain most or all of the previous releases (at least what is now available) what would be the need or reason to copy a bunch of repeat songs to the system. If you want to use shifted CDGs you go through the audit, if you don't want to then you stay with the CDG as it was intended to work or purchase a pur digital system.
The problem comes when you want your cake while eating it too.
The audit system and lawsuits are not going to stop in fact just like piracy began to snowball and grow to the point where it required major action there is now a new snowball and it is gobbling the pirates back up on it's way down the hill.
There are many of us out here who are doing everything possible to keep it rolling as fast as possible so that it will over take the piracy snowball and roll it all up.
Those that don't want to be caught up in it have three choices hunker down and hope it misses them (it won't because the pirates that are caught are turning in every other pirate they know about) or get out of the way (get out of the business if you are a pirate)or remain or go back to disc based systems, (which a vast majority of pirates can not do).
Those that are truly legit or disc based really don't care, because most already know that it is helping their businesses
-------------------- Cheerleader for the efforts of Sound Choice Chartbuster and Stellar. Posts: 158 | From: Virginia | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by sabathiel: "The workers united will never be defeated"
"United we bargain, divided we beg"
Union slogans in Australia.
Without union any single employee would never be able to stand up against the might of employers or big business. The workers united (in the forms of unions) addresses the imbalance of bargaining power between those who own capital as well as the means of production and those who are exploited by those so called employers.
The capitalist system which replaces the feudal system is nothing but a tone down system of slavery where the slaves live independent lives yet still exploited by their masters in exchange of a salary or wage for their labour which they sell in the market place. The workers who do not control the means of production or posses sufficient capital are forced to sell their labour in the market place in exchange of capital at a market rate in order to live independently rather become fully dependent on their masters.
It is through organised labour (unions) the workers are guaranteed a decent minimum wage and decent working conditions as well as a more strong bargaining power in the market place. Having said that that doesn't mean union bosses could not abuse their power and work for their narrow selfish individual interests rather than the interests of their union members.
You are correct and there have been several what we will call "perfect unions"
The Soviet Union, The Peoples Rebublic of China, The National Assembly Of The Peoples Power (Cuba), The Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
These are or were union controlled countries. The one thing most of them have or had in common is the suppression of free will, lack of productivity, and general lack of food supply.
-------------------- Cheerleader for the efforts of Sound Choice Chartbuster and Stellar. Posts: 158 | From: Virginia | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Too bad you didn't learn about the "Industrial Revolution", 80 hour work weeks, child labor, or workers safety in school... All that improved greatly for only one reason...UNIONS. It's easy to listen to a bunch of people, and then parrot their answers. Thank God we also have people that are unafraid to fight for what they believe in. Oh, In Poland the Communist regime was brought down, oddly enough, by the UNIONS! Communism and Trade Unions, have nothing to do with one another.
Getting back to the subject, once again, I will reiterate my stance on "shifting" (of which my outlook has NOT changed!) It's still about what you are getting. It shouldn't matter if you legally buy the digital information by Download, memory stick, CD+G, or any other digital method, the digital information is 100% exactly the same. The 1's and the 0's are in precisely the same order. If you put them on a cassette tape, and then loaded it into a computer, it would still be the same information. If you took a load of chalk and wrote the digital code of a single song down the center of US route 80 from New Jersey to California, and then programmed that code into your PC, it would still play that song. Your computer has no idea where or how the information came to it, it only reads the code which is identical no mater what it's delivery method. The people that buy the Gem series, are buying exactly the same 1's and 0's that I did, unless SC recorded everything new...yeh right! But because they paid for the New stuff, they get away without the extortion...for now.
Posts: 103 | From: Boonton, NJ | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
Apparently you haven't been around too long!
Cassette tape is magnetic and an analog source!
If the information on your CDG is the same as what you put on your computer, then why in the world must you convert it for use on the computer?
Would it not be easier just to drag and drop it from the CDG to the hard drive?
You are right the computer doesn't know where or how the information came to it, but the computer isn't stealing it, the computer is just a tool used by some people to steal from others.
Mace, I notice on your web page you state that you are "Verifiably 100% Legal" but there is a much simpler way to say that which makes a lot more sense. Try I am verified 100% legal by the U.S. manufacturers as I have been audited and certified by them and here is my certification number.
Nice Piracy statement, however wrong it is on so many counts.
There has been no legal sorce that can state that being 1:1 covers you under the fair use exceptions for a commercial enterprise so that was a bad statement right from the start.
-------------------- Cheerleader for the efforts of Sound Choice Chartbuster and Stellar. Posts: 158 | From: Virginia | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Yes, to the website, no the yellow pages. and check the IP link. I'm older than you think. I happen to know that magnetic tape can indeed hold digital information....and so did paper punch cards. I guess it would take one heck of a lot of paper punch cards to play a song...LOL
Yup, 6'0" tall, 215 lbs, Biker (Harley Davidson), My hair is real, My eyes are blue, anything else you need to know? Tatoos? yes.
"Commercial" is understood as distribution in this application as far as I can tell. If that were'nt the case, ASCAP and BMI would be up our butts too.
The 1's and 0's don't lie, they are the same no matter how they were delivered. I paid for mine just like the people that pay for the Gem and Pro stuff. Like I said, I'll end up paying, but under protest. I won't roll over just because this is the best (unfair) idea that they can come up with...it still doesn't make it right. Catching the bad guys shouldn't hurt the good guys, especially when, if we hadn't bought our CD+G's they woulden't even be in business now.
posted
DAT and Cassette (as generally used) are two different animals.
Now add into that the fact that you can't drag and drog from DAT tape either
-------------------- Cheerleader for the efforts of Sound Choice Chartbuster and Stellar. Posts: 158 | From: Virginia | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Commercial use is a seperate item in the law from distribution (which is also covered) There are very specific rules of exception to fair use, none of which fit a working KJ.
As for ASCAP, BMI and SESAC they handle performance fees "venues performing the protected works of others" ie: bands, jukeboxes, DJs, KJs, etc. for "commercial" gain (there is that word commercial again)!
§ 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include —
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
Now if you take number 1 and read it you will notice this line "or is for nonprofit educational purposes" now if you can say you are not doing it for profit then you should be OK, however if you are making money with it then you are not nonprofit and would be involved in a situation of commercial gain from it's use.
-------------------- Cheerleader for the efforts of Sound Choice Chartbuster and Stellar. Posts: 158 | From: Virginia | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Although we are waiting for adjudication...
These are the OPINIONS of: * Robin Gross, an intellectual property law attorney and Executive Director of IP Justice.
Jeremy Woodburn, an intellectual property law attorney based in San Francisco, California, USA.
Conclusion: Fair Use Protects CDG Owners
"The owners of Karaoke CDGs, facilities, mobile hosting services and consumers, have invested substantially in the purchase of large libraries of Karaoke CDGs. Allowing them to copy the contents of their CDGs for backup or format-shifting to hard drives would also be a fair use, and is entirely consistent both with the legislation on copying digital media passed to date, and with traditional fair use analysis ruled on by the US courts."
Posts: 103 | From: Boonton, NJ | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
I know many people have quoted Robin Gross and Mr. Woodburn, but again it is just their opinion which is no better than our own. I can give you a whole list of attorney's who say they are both wrong, but again it is just a matter of opinion.
But regardless we are talking about piracy and ways to stop it, so far I haven't seen anyone put forward any solution with a chance of working other than what is currently being done (and it is working).
-------------------- Cheerleader for the efforts of Sound Choice Chartbuster and Stellar. Posts: 158 | From: Virginia | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Just one extra point here is this also involves a trademark which is the violation being persued and the trademark laws are very specific on copying and displaying a trademark logo (it can only be done with the "explicit permission" of the trademark owner!
-------------------- Cheerleader for the efforts of Sound Choice Chartbuster and Stellar. Posts: 158 | From: Virginia | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Their trademark was included on the product they released by their own doing and design, for the purpose of Karaoke entertainment and it's removal is illegal, therefore it becomes a legal "catch 22" that only the courts will be able to rule on.
Posts: 103 | From: Boonton, NJ | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
It's funny that none of the lawyers from IP Justice have taken one case on pro bono to prove their point in court, since it is so "black and white" and they are so positive they are in the right. Afterall I've seen this page for years.
Posts: 391 | From: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Mar 2002
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