posted
Unfortunately if you're not getting paid for your work, you can't keep employees. Unlike a tangible object (a car, a jacket, etc), which can only be stolen and sold to one person, anything (one item) that can be downloaded to a computer can be sold to anyone who has a computer. And we've all seen that. A Canadian manufacturer went out of business for this very reason. He stated that he went to several shows, which were computer run and the vast majority never paid for the music. He then stated why should I work hard to make professional music just to have it stolen.
Posts: 377 | From: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Willy C: All that being said, I still havent found a karaoke production company that comes close to SC's quality in sound..At least not in the "Rock" genre that I am most interested in.
Soundchoice music quality is one of the best in the business. I would have said Soundchoice is the best but I have encountered a few crappy productions (a handful I must say). One of them in particular was a song by Del Amitri (soft rock)called Always The Last To Know where the idiot keyboard player decided to have his/her own keyboard arrangement rather than stick to the original arrangement of the song. The result was horrendous. I have also encountered where Soundchoice lyrics colour highlight were not in synch with the music but again this is very rare.
In terms of production Zoom Karaoke (UK) is the best and they never once screw up & their musicians are just as good as Soundchoice's. They must have put a lot of effort to monitor their production result because all their songs are very well done in terms of musicianship, lyric colour graphics & lyrical content. The problem is their music catalogue is not as extensive as the other karaoke manufacturers (eg Sunfly, SBI or even Soundchoice at their peak).
After Sounchoice & Zoom comes SBI karaoke & Sunfly who do decent jobs with their karaoke productions. Their song catalogues are the most extensive in the business especially SBI which pumps almost 100 new songs every month for download.
Posts: 233 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2008
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That is a pretty good assessment of how the other companies stack up. The others still just do not have the same attention to detail that SC has.
Posts: 1025 | From: San Francisco, CA, USA | Registered: Jul 1999
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I must respectfully disagree with you gentlemen- you have consistently omitted Pocket Songs, who -in my opinion- dominate the jazz/standards market. They use real horns, their songs are impeccable.
-That being said, I do commend Sound Choice as the finest pop/country/rock company in the States.
Zoom, while they're very impressive, will not readily accept suggestions from US karaoke fans nearly as well as Sound Choice has. Their marketability choice is UK first, and (let's face it) we are not on the same page musically as the rest of the world, I'm sad to say.
As an example- I'm fairly certain that unless SC does a 180 on their current status quo, I will never see another Jimmy Buffett song get put out in a karaoke format. He's not popular in the UK, and SC won't be revisiting older music.
That in itself is a shame, really... while many of you keep requesting newer rock and R&B, I have almost NEVER had any requests in any of the venues I've hosted. People want the songs they're comfortable with, it seems to me. And to be honest, I'm fine with this. MOST (not all, certainly) modern music doesn't speak to me- R&B is no longer Rhythm & Blues. It's Rap and Bass. Overall, music has gotten angrier and more animalistic- at least in Pop mainstream. The gangsta rapper is glorified, and the soul of soul music is now more about the sex. (Forgive that rant..it needed to be said...)
-------------------- one of the last legitimate karaoke hosts in the Pacific Northwest... Posts: 745 | From: Portland, OR, USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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I agree with most of your points about modern music, although I find a few things to sing. In my experience as a middle-aged karaoke singer, I sometimes bring in and sing some of the newest songs of the night, often from my personal stash, and it is surprising that the younger singers often sing older songs (of course, in this case, "older" sometimes means 90's/early '00s or it could mean Mack the Knife).
Posts: 1261 | From: Milton, MA 02186 | Registered: Mar 2001
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Well, for me, right now, the top brands have become Sunfly (they got a HUGE selection and their quality has improved about by the DAY), Chartbuster (surprised no one's mentioned THEM yet, and they seem to be all but ready to go digital. Look at their site), and Sing It Now (the guys that do the Pop Hits Monthly discs, and they offer downloadable versions of all their releases, and they also do good on rock hits). There's also an off-brand called Mr. Entertainer that is okay (not the best I've seen, but they have some songs that others may not have).
I think the failure to realize this digital age has hurt SC the most. I do think also the failure to offer the things that Sunfly, CB, and PHM has (monthly subscription models) hurts them.
Posts: 9 | Registered: Jan 2010
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It did cross my mind after posting that Pocket does the best job on jazz/standard songs but I didn't added that info in another post simply because jazz/standard is not really the bread & butter of the average mainstream karaoke market. Pocket only does a very small amount of non-jazz/standard tunes but they still do a good job on them. Another karaoke company that specialises in older songs like Pocket that is pretty good is Just Tracks (JTG).
I should have also mentioned Chartbuster but they are not as good as Soundchoice or Zoom. I'd say they are middle range like Sunfly & SBI. The rest that didn't get a mention would be at the lower end category. Although I must say I found the Music Factory version of the Jungle Book's "I Wanna Be Like You" (the Monkey Song) to be the best version even beating the top karaoke companies version like Zoom. Sometimes the lesser known karaoke companies beats the top karaoke companies on certain odd songs.
Posts: 233 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2008
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Legend is another middle range company but I think they are no longer in the business now.
Posts: 233 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2008
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quote:Originally posted by sabathiel: Legend is another middle range company but I think they are no longer in the business now.
Oh, I've always loved the Legends series, and yes, it IS sad that they no longer exist (at least to my knowledge).
My main issue, at least with this (and I've been one that has frowned on how the RIAA handled THEIR lawsuit stuff back in the day that was a huge front page story), is that it seems more of a sign of weakness from SC. They know there's competition (PHM, Sunfly, and Chartbuster, for example) that continuously puts out songs each month, and they have a subscription system that has you receive the newest monthly discs for so much a month, and all of them have been working on a way to do legit MP3+G downloadable tracks (PHM has been doing it for a year or so now, CB has theirs in beta, and Sunfly has had theirs up for some time now). That and so far, I don't see too many limitations on where and when and how you can use the files.
With SC, there is no such thing. We still have not even a peep that there is something even being worked on besides a SC rep saying to trust them about it. There WAS the Powerpicks series, but with no monthly subscription model that I was aware of. The quality of the tracks, while still good, seemed like they were somewhat too comfortable (what happened to the font of the lyrics? Why did they try that new bolded font for the screen lyrics) when other companies are stepping up their game now. Oh, and some of these companies can sell their product for cheaper (just look at Chartbuster's pricing for Custom CDGs as opposed to how SC had their pricing).
See, my issue is that SC is thinking that it's JUST pirates that are causing the downfall of SC, when SC needs to rethink their positions on some of these copyrights. SC is like the MPAA of the Karaoke genre: they don't seem to want to move into the future, especially when programs like iTunes and the iPod have taken off like wildfire, and Sony plunged into DD with the PSP Go. SC seems to still think people tote around Walkmans with CD wallets in their pockets (sorry, couldn't think of any other analogy to use here).
Granted, I think SC is a good quality company (at least I did until I got a Custom CDG from them which wasn't in the quality I was expecting). However, SC needs to be VERY careful about how they approach this, as they can end up alienating those that have yet to choose other brands of Karaoke (like I said, CB is good, PHM kicks ass and Sunfly seems to suddenly have the GOOD players making theirs now).
I always think that the way to get legit customers is to offer a reason for people to WANT to buy your product. Maybe competitive pricing, getting exclusive rights to some songs (though THAT could get some controversy going, too), or perhaps go the Rock Band route and also offer instrument karaoke (where notes appear and you can play to them with a guitar or drums or something like that), or perhaps be the first brand to offer MASTER tracks instead of cover tracks (don't know how expensive licensing could be with trying to do something THAT grand, but it's the one thing no Karaoke manufacturer has yet to even TRY). Suing people with a "guilty until proven innocent" helps nobody and will not solve the problem (will only make it worse, because who would want to give their money to someone who'll treat their customers like trash?).
Actually, now that I think about it...I wonder IF any Karaoke maker has ever thought about trying to get master tracks.
Posts: 9 | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Good rant! I say another way Sound Choice could boost their sales is if they got better licensing for Canadian content. Just about every karaoke manufacturer in Canada (Karaokemaker, Gamesman, and Sing King are the biggest examples) never had solid staying power. There are some Canadian artists, Sam Roberts and Matthew Good to name a couple, that have been very successful in their country and had chunks of hits, but not a single one of them has ever gotten into the karaoke domain. There are even some songs I keep hearing from more well known Canadian artists such as "Bad Girlfriend" from Theory of a Deadman and "All You Did Was Save My Life" from Our Lady Peace that make me wonder why these hits never got manufactured by any big name karaoke company. If Sound Choice wants to do any better, they gotta think outside the box and create more tracks that no other karaoke company has thought of before, instead of cashing into a bunch of hits that several other companies have manufactured before them about a year ago (as was the case with Spotlight disc 9023).
Posts: 194 | Registered: Jul 2009
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These are all good comments, really enjoy this string..Sadly, we have heard NOTHING from Sound Choice represtatives regarding what, if anything will happen with the company in 2010 Posts: 440 | From: Kirkland, Washington | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
barosjn, the two main problems the Canadian manufacturers had to contend with was of course piracy but the second was the huge jump in licencing fees. Karaokemaker wanted to reissue their Trooper disc and I believe Neil stated that the licence to do so (and remember it had already been made and had the master) and the fee went up either by 4 or 5 times.
Posts: 377 | From: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
What annoys me is when a new (or sometimes even an old) karaoke company produces lots of new songs into their catalogue and all those songs have already been done by other companies (& done very well too). I really can't understand this kind of marketing strategy. If anything if any karaoke companies want to add new songs to their catalogue they should produce songs that are not available in the karaoke market (hasn't been done by any other karaoke companies or at least if they were done they were not done well enough).
Posts: 233 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2008
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I am talking about older songs not recent hits which all the karaoke companies are keen to pump into the market under their label.
Posts: 233 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2008
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Everyone knows that old stuff cannot demand the premium prices that current up to date music can because of it's desireability. Therefore all karaoke companies re-release old track and call the something new like performer series hit's of the 80's etc... This is the main reason people who run karaoke have so many copies of the exact same song from the same brand paid for again and again. It is a sad but true tactic used by sc more than any other. Why has SC not produced many disks lately? Why are they trying to ruin the karaoke industry by making everyone think KJ's are all pirates?
Posts: 30 | From: u s of a | Registered: Jan 2010
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I hope sound choice goes under and the rights are bought by someone who worries about producing new music instead of past music listed online shareware from 2002 and before that is old not worth much and sell as many archive disks they can for a few dollars each and for a fair price let people who did download get originals as if it were demos. I am sure everyone would be happy to buy old soundchoice disks for bargain prices as a result. STOP BEING SO GREEDY THATS WHY SOMEONE PIRATED YOUR STUFF TO THE INTERNET TO BEGIN WITH DUMMY!
Posts: 30 | From: u s of a | Registered: Jan 2010
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Would it cost sound choice anything to release their older stock for $5 each, you would sell 1,000 disks for $5,000 and multiply that by your estimated 30,000 hard drives is 150 million dollars!!!! it's a no brainer to me if I owned stock in sound choice!! And to beauty part is you wont have to coerse anyone, seeing a fair price and tell them it's for a limited time say one year, they can buy all they need while still paying their mortgage and feeding their children!
Posts: 30 | From: u s of a | Registered: Jan 2010
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Ok how can SGB sell karaoke disk's for $1 I bought the whole set new for a buck a piece. and 150,000,000.00 is a whole lot of money. If I know nothing about licensing, maybe you could enlighten me as to how much sound choice pays out per disk? Is it double what Quick hits pays because their disk's are $8 each for brand new releases right now Feb 2010 15 songs and good quality. I am not talking about a release of "Ring Of Fire" I am talking "Lady Gaga" new hits on the pop stations today! Why should you expect anyone to pay 3 times the amount per disk?
Posts: 30 | From: u s of a | Registered: Jan 2010
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The manus you speak of haven't paid licencing, hence why you cannot find contact info and why so cheap. I believe the cost to do a disc is in excess of $20,000 (or maybe that's a song).
Most pros consider SGB as nothing more than a drink coaster.
If a price seems too good to be true then it most likely is.
Some top notch (product wise) manufacturers, such as Top Hits Monthly, Top Tunes, Music Maestro, all went out of business to copyright/licencing infringements.
Posts: 377 | From: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Mar 2002
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I do not represent Sound Choice, but let me offer a few thoughts:
On the $1.00 discs, if you bought them from a retailer rather than the manufacturer, they might just be trying to unload unsold inventory since they already paid for the discs. As you argue, something is better than nothing.
Sound Choice has never been the cheapest company but they actually brought down their prices over time to be reasonably competitive. If you think you can get equal quality for cheaper, that's your choice. I generally prefer Sound Choice. I am not familiar with the brand you mentioned but Sound Choice's production costs may be higher.
On the $5.00 idea, the production costs for the music would be paid for but there would still be manufacturing and presumably royalty costs. If they think they can sell enough at their regular prices, why should they undercut themselves? Also, why should they reward people who pirated their material by allowing them to buy music at a discount price when their competitors who were honest paid full price? I also doubt that large numbers of people who pirated the music would suddenly decide to even pay $5.00 per disc.
I think that the right selection of older songs can draw the same price as newer hits with the benefit of the manufacturer seeing what has stood the test of time. Hey Jude will probably still be sung in 5 years. How many of this year's hits will be?
Posts: 1261 | From: Milton, MA 02186 | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Yet another interesting batch of rants, especially Timberlea's comment on how the SGB, MM, TT, and THM manufacturers are no longer around. It surprised me that THM went out of business in 2008, yet that monthly company was a branch from PHM, who are still around. What I've found even more of a letdown was how PHM stopped making their rock discs in 2005 and THM did the same thing a year later. It's a shame, because people aren't getting enough rock hits in karaoke today like they did years ago. I do find Sound Choice to be the manufacturer with the best quality though, so another way Sound Choice could get back into business is with some monthly rock hits to come along with their occasional pop hits spotlight discs. Sure, we probably can't get hits from every big name band out there (Sound Choice had said no to any of the recent stuff from Metallica, Guns N' Roses, and Green Day because of the company's fears on hefty license fees), but at least Sound Choice should go with the licenses they have and pick up some newer forms of licensing along the way.
Posts: 194 | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
I do not represent pirates and do not condone selling hard drives on the open market, although in the business, everyone I know has shared something along the lines, even you! Whether or not they use it is not for me to say. I will say though that everyone uses 90-100% what they have purchased. I have tons of karaoke disk's, a good mix of all brands, I have been lucky and got great deals from people going out of business which is very common in karaoke. There is no way to rely on steady work when it comes to karaoke, ever! Especially in these tough times.
I have done a little research on licensing for karaoke and have found that the cost's are anywhere from free with permission which I have found to be the majority up to $1000 per song and even no price at all as they will not give it up, it's a one time fee no matter how many disk's you print. The artist's that give permission understand that their classic song/s being used in karaoke may bolster new sales of the compilation music at retail stores. Also I have found that I can strip the vocals from a cd I purchased and create my own karaoke tracks that are totally legal to play. If I do that I don't pay for a disk with 15 tracks that have 13 useless songs! I have too many disk's that have never ever had one song played. So please do not over estimate the value of karaoke versions. If no one is singing it I am not going to put it in my car cd player and tap my toes!
What I am getting at is that all other still in business karaoke companies reduce the cost's of their older disk's because this helps people starting out to get a core of usable music without exceeding cost vs. expected return on investment. If your karaoke business fails you can't sell a disk for more than $5 on the best of days, any used item in the music world is worth 30-50% of new price but a used sound choice cd has a value of 75% less. New sealed chartbuster disk's sell for 9.99 to 14.00 shipped to you. I bought all the essential packs last year for 175.00 each and that's for 30 disk's with no duplicates! That's $5.83 a disk with no duplicates! Do you get it now? The foundation and brick packs are over $10 a disk for the equivilent but the mix of music is so old you still have 10 years of updates to purchase.
I like Sound Choice versions for pop and rock, Chartbusters I think is better for country and zoom is hands down the best karaoke company ever with flawless mixes and wonderful musicians.
I am more worried that with all the law suits it's doing more damage to the industry as a whole by dragging establishments and individuals through the mud, all because sc is having trouble selling enough disk's to ignore the fact that people will always share music with friends and that will never stop. You make it soud like people are copying whole hard drives and no one is that stupid to do that, atleast on the scale you assume. I don't doubt that there are some out there but you are barking up the wrong tree.
Sell your disk's new within the last year of production for the same as chartbusters and put them on sale after the year is up. If I ran my business like sound choice has I would be bankrupt, SMART UP and sell more for less per disk and get rich, or you can let this litigate through the courts long enough for people to replace anything not quite legit with chartbusters disk's!
Posts: 30 | From: u s of a | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
I agree producing karaoke versions of songs (especially older songs) may boost sales of the original songs. That is maybe some songs have no licensing fees (with permission)because what better way to promote songs that have been out of date but to have them played at karaoke venues to attract new audiences (particularly the younger crowd). I presume the expensive licensing fees (eg $1000 a song) applies mostly to current hits or all time classics.
Zoom have been pumping a lot of karaoke songs recently but mainly for mp3+G downloads. They even almost did the entire songs from Michael Buble's new album (Crazy Love). Zoom's production is no doubt the best and the quality of their musicians are second to none. No other karaoke company even comes close to Zoom now that Soundchoice is pretty much dead.
I know Zoom is UK based and the UK's licensing laws are more lax than the USA. That is why I think Soundchoice is better off having a UK branch to bypass tough US licensing laws. UK companies like Zoom, Sunfly, SBI etc are not having the licensing problems Soundchoice is having. They have been producing up to 50 songs per month for each company for mp3+G download on top of their monthly discs.
Posts: 233 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
I want to know what sc disk sold 750 copies and was found on 30,000 hard drives? It would be one prior to June 4th 2009. With 10 people working for you how long does it take to examine 30,000 hard drives accross the country? Also that can be expensive, and a squandering of funds. Somones fibbin' here. Trying to exaggerate claims of piracy, kinda like the war on drugs, terror, etc... I want to know what disk it is so I can check to see if I own it!
Posts: 30 | From: u s of a | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Potatoe,You need to spend some time in the archives my friend!Spend some time on some other sites too.
Wish I could type with more than 2 fingers.
Everyone else,
keep in mind ( like it or not) This site is owned by SC. It is NOT public. Although SC does allow alot. Posting names of others brands on a board owned by SC is just wrong!!! And, unless you are posting proven facts or proving them yourself ( with FACTS) you need to make it known that it is an opinion. ( where have I hard that before?)
Sound Choice does NOT produce music that they cannot get permissions for. They don't avoid those artists, they ask, those artist just say no for whatever ( asnine) reason. Why would SC ask to be sued by doin those tunes?
Pirates: You ARE asking for it!!!
My market has OVER a million dollars of pirated material based on my count of the # of hard drives from ONE pirate. This guy combined the libraries of 2 KJ's. Last time I counted there were 27 Hard drives form that first one. Based on my library costing over $50K over 18 years. That is well over a million dollars of piracy that is LOCAL. They even have more tunes than me!
So who cares if it is or isn't 30,000 hard drives. It IS millions of dollars we are talking about.
10 ppl in the office doesn't mean they don't have a hundred detecitives. Not saying they do either. So what if it's an exaggeration. My competition has been telling ppl for almost 20 years that have twice as many songs as they really do.
quote:Originally posted by barosjn: Yet another interesting batch of rants, especially Timberlea's comment on how the SGB, MM, TT, and THM manufacturers are no longer around. It surprised me that THM went out of business in 2008, yet that monthly company was a branch from PHM, who are still around.
Actually THM was never a part of PHM. THM was Panaroma Records, PHM is Stellar records. PHM even had several lawsuits against THM for trademark infringement as their original discs looked pretty similar.
quote:Originally posted by potatoe: I have done a little research on licensing for karaoke and have found that the cost's are anywhere from free with permission which I have found to be the majority up to $1000 per song and even no price at all as they will not give it up, it's a one time fee no matter how many disk's you print. The artist's that give permission understand that their classic song/s being used in karaoke may bolster new sales of the compilation music at retail stores. Also I have found that I can strip the vocals from a cd I purchased and create my own karaoke tracks that are totally legal to play. If I do that I don't pay for a disk with 15 tracks that have 13 useless songs! I have too many disk's that have never ever had one song played. So please do not over estimate the value of karaoke versions. If no one is singing it I am not going to put it in my car cd player and tap my toes!
If you also did as much research you would find that CB & PHM are also in several lawsuits for doings songs without the proper licensing. And like mentioned, the $1 sales are from retailers, not the manus. And if you try to find contact info to the company like SGB, you will not find one reference anywhere. But like said, most pro kj's don't consider these more than coasters overall.
quote:Originally posted by glmmantis: Sound Choice does NOT produce music that they cannot get permissions for. They don't avoid those artists, they ask, those artist just say no for whatever ( asnine) reason. Why would SC ask to be sued by doin those tunes?
It was just like with the ABCKO recordings (Motown, Rolling Stones, etc.), they were denied these for years, then finally they got the ok to do so & did. Most likely to so Phil Spector could pay for his legal fees .
posted
Sue, sue, sue, sue.......everyone is suing everyone. Land of litigation. It's all about money. Only in America I guess. Is that one of the reason why non-American karaoke companies are not having as much problems with copyright & licensing because the rest of the world don't have legal culture of suing? I watch Judge Judy and am amazed of what kind of cases are brought to Court in America. Cases that could have been solved by simple communication & common sense of the parties involved.
Lawyers are like nuclear bombs. The only reason you have them is because the opposing side has got them. However once you start using them both sides will get screwed.
The reason I mention other karaoke companies is to see if anyone from Soundchoice admin will care. I guess they don't anymore because Soundchoice is just as good as dead now. They use to care and edit this site by deleting references to their competition. That is why I keep throwing praises at Zoom which really is not an opinion but a fact to anyone who knows their work.
C'mon Soundchoice wake up from the dead!!!!
Posts: 233 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
I think companies in some non-US companies have an easier time of licensing because of copyright laws with compulsory licensing provisions not because of differences in the culture of suing. Whether SC's estimates of piracy are accurate or not, I don't blame them for protecting their rights in the material they spent time and effort to build as long as they distinguish true pirates from honest hosts working on 1:1 ratio from downloaded discs they bought.
From what I have seen on a UK-based karaoke board, the UK has its own share of pirates.
Posts: 1261 | From: Milton, MA 02186 | Registered: Mar 2001
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If you also did as much research you would find that CB & PHM are also in several lawsuits for doings songs without the proper licensing. But like said, most pro kj's don't consider these more than coasters overall. [/QUOTE] There are many who consider SGB to be the best for Lynyrd Skynard spelling chk... and as I have listened to most of the tracks I hate a bunch of them but some are ok, coasters, I think not, the best not quite either but karaoke is mainly the drunken people getting up and dropping my microphones and trippin over my XLR's. I routinly spend between 100 and 200 every month on filling gaps in my songbooks and hunting down tracks that regulars request. I have 2-5 barnds of almost every song someone request's. I have a surprising amount of DK and people who love their versions. I would say that I have more people ask if I have DK than SC.
As to the research, I did a little snooping around and found several lawsuits against SC and I know that it led to them pulling several disks off the market ie the Eagles disk that everone knows is now sought after. Once you pay or get permission you don't lose the license!!! Soud Choice Pirated the music and sold millions of disk's. Fact. Another person said that 2 kj's put their music together and then sold Hard Drives to saturate the market. That is sad and a shame, there is no telling what a redneck will do, Right? I work in a market where 90% of KJ are legit or close enough because they are buying new music all the time. you cant download new music! I know there is a site where you can play straight off the internet every song for a small fee, The quality is not the greatest but why spend the $20,000 I did if you don't have to. I would be ****ed if that was the way things went in the future because I still have a big debt to pay from my loan to start my business. On the other hand I did know the risk of getting in a FAD business. If my band had hit it big and I recorded hit music I would expect people to share a huge portion with or without laws, simply because technology is not going to stop and people in nature like to share. Widespread shareing is a nono though and I wish it could be controlled. The ipod and amozon are selling lots of music one track at a time while you could just download it on IMESH but there are people who would rather just buy it. Like me, Do I have some borrowed stuff? DO YOU? Ill answer for you and you can guess at mine... YES YOU DO, SAY NO AND YOU ARE LYING TO YOURSELF BECAUSE I DON'T NEED TO HEAR YOUR ANSWER! I know the truth. What we need is people to slow down on shareing and just buy a little more. People will respond, REDNECKS and chinese will continue to pirate because they are broke and can't afford dental work. Much less the library of karaoke. Old karaoke is a dime a dozen, I can right now buy a dvd set of 60,000 songs currnet as of 2004 right now legal for $26.00 no typo that's it. I think 60,000 is enough to run a show. I spent $20,000.00 was I just stoopid? I think it's a bummer but times are a changing and what you have today will be worthless tomorrow.
Posts: 30 | From: u s of a | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
"Once you pay or get permission you don't lose the license!!! Soud Choice Pirated the music and sold millions of disk's. Fact."
FALSE.
Potatoe- (Ok, first and foremost 'cuz it's bugging me.... please refrain from using ' in a plural... disc's= discs. It'll give your arguments more credibility if you master the language..)
As far as the Eagles debacle, let me sum it up: 1) The Slep Bros. started with selling cassettes with enclosed lyric sheets. Among these were a substantial Eagles catalog. 2) when CD+G technology came out, they took their cassette recordings and produced CD+Gs. 3) Some legal yahoos got it into their heads that the projected lyrics were NOT the same as an enclosed lyric sheet...thus "synchronization rights" was created. 4) Henley's lawyer (and sundry others) put a recall order on these discs as the Slep bros. hadn't paid (yet again). 5) Unfortunately for them, the recall occurred AFTER the disc had been released. Those who bought early got'em. (I was one such lucky guy.)
FOR the most part, it's considered bad form to accuse the founders of this company (and, by fiat, this forum) of doing anything unlawful. The fact was that new laws were added and they were sued before they could recant or fix the problem.
Try not to crap where you eat, my Grandfather always said...
-------------------- one of the last legitimate karaoke hosts in the Pacific Northwest... Posts: 745 | From: Portland, OR, USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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Also a licence dicates how many copies may be made, otherwise Karaokemaker and King King would have re-released their discs that sold out. When a manufacturer does a song again for another disc, another licence has to be obtained.
Anytime you'd like to come to Halifax, we will be more than glad to show you our 25,000+ song titles all on original, purchased discs. No computers here.
Posts: 377 | From: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Mar 2002
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If you also did as much research you would find that CB & PHM are also in several lawsuits for doings songs without the proper licensing. But like said, most pro kj's don't consider these more than coasters overall.
There are many who consider SGB to be the best for Lynyrd Skynard spelling chk... and as I have listened to most of the tracks I hate a bunch of them but some are ok, coasters, I think not, the best not quite either but karaoke is mainly the drunken people getting up and dropping my microphones and trippin over my XLR's. [/quote] You obviously have not been to a non 'stereotyped' karaoke show where SGB is NOT a useable brand. I can see if the singers are all drunken screamers that don't care what they sound like, that is not the normal clientelle of our shows in the 20 years i've been doing this. Coasters, SGB they are in fact!
quote:As to the research, I did a little snooping around and found several lawsuits against SC and I know that it led to them pulling several disks off the market ie the Eagles disk that everone knows is now sought after. Once you pay or get permission you don't lose the license!!!
Actually the Eagles disc was one f their main mistakes, they actually produced it before they got permission - admittedly years ago, it was on the shelve for MAYBE a year, then had to pull it - but this was also back in around 94, but YES in fact many publishers can and have pulled their permission - Garth Brooks is a perfect example - even Chartbuster pulled all songs actually written by him - not necessarily performed by him, Alanis Morrisette is another, Pearl Jam is another, I can go on. The lawsuits against SC are older, as far as producing the music without proper licensing, look at the dates.
quote:Sound Choice Pirated the music and sold millions of disk's. Fact.
Not!
quote:Another person said that 2 kj's put their music together and then sold Hard Drives to saturate the market. That is sad and a shame, there is no telling what a redneck will do, Right? I work in a market where 90% of KJ are legit or close enough because they are buying new music all the time. you cant download new music!
Well yeah you can but the legalities of it comes to play.
quote: I know there is a site where you can play straight off the internet every song for a small fee, The quality is not the greatest but why spend the $20,000 I did if you don't have to.
My show is professional enough NOT to rely on an internet stream to do my show. Anyone stupid enough shouldn't be in the business in the first place.
quote:I would be ****ed if that was the way things went in the future because I still have a big debt to pay from my loan to start my business. On the other hand I did know the risk of getting in a FAD business.
I'd be ****ed too, however I have enough music legally purchased that even if it went that route, I could still run a successful show for years to come. New music is not what our crowds ask for - and they are primarily in their 20's. As far as a fad, I have been in the business since 89, started my company in 94, been at the same place 7 nights a week SINCE 94 and was a host there 2 year prior 5 nights a week. It's more than a fad.
quote:If my band had hit it big and I recorded hit music I would expect people to share a huge portion with or without laws, simply because technology is not going to stop and people in nature like to share. Widespread shareing is a nono though and I wish it could be controlled.
Yeah you might not think so IF that was the primary source of income for the band - which used to be the case up until about 10 years ago.
quote: The ipod and amozon are selling lots of music one track at a time while you could just download it on IMESH but there are people who would rather just buy it. Like me, Do I have some borrowed stuff? DO YOU? Ill answer for you and you can guess at mine... YES YOU DO, SAY NO AND YOU ARE LYING TO YOURSELF BECAUSE I DON'T NEED TO HEAR YOUR ANSWER! I know the truth.
I have never denied borrowing a tape or album and making a copy for my own to listen to. Do I use it commercially? NO! Not saying it's right, but chances are it was something I would not have purchased in the first place, and if I liked it, I WOULD buy it! I have heard of and know kj's trading libraries, i've been offered that deal SEVERAL times throughout the years - IMO that is assinine, WHY ON EARTH would I want a potential competitor of mine to have the same songs I offer if they don't want to buy them? If they had something I wanted I would buy it myself.
quote:What we need is people to slow down on shareing and just buy a little more. People will respond, REDNECKS and chinese will continue to pirate because they are broke and can't afford dental work. Much less the library of karaoke. Old karaoke is a dime a dozen, I can right now buy a dvd set of 60,000 songs currnet as of 2004 right now legal for $26.00 no typo that's it.
Trust me it's NOT legal! 60K songs is nice, but is it what people actually want? My library is about 12K now & I get great crowds & people coming in making the statement, Wow you have everything.
quote: I think 60,000 is enough to run a show. I spent $20,000.00 was I just stoopid? I think it's a bummer but times are a changing and what you have today will be worthless tomorrow.
quote:Originally posted by potatoe: I have done a little research on licensing for karaoke and have found that the cost's are anywhere from free with permission which I have found to be the majority up to $1000 per song and even no price at all as they will not give it up, it's a one time fee no matter how many disk's you print. The artist's that give permission understand that their classic song/s being used in karaoke may bolster new sales of the compilation music at retail stores. Also I have found that I can strip the vocals from a cd I purchased and create my own karaoke tracks that are totally legal to play. If I do that I don't pay for a disk with 15 tracks that have 13 useless songs! I have too many disk's that have never ever had one song played. So please do not over estimate the value of karaoke versions. If no one is singing it I am not going to put it in my car cd player and tap my toes!
This is so wrong on so many counts. Please refrain from stating what you learned through "a little research" as fact.
quote:Originally posted by glmmantis: Potatoe,You need to spend some time in the archives my friend!Spend some time on some other sites too.
Sound Choice does NOT produce music that they cannot get permissions for. They don't avoid those artists, they ask, those artist just say no for whatever ( asnine) reason. Why would SC ask to be sued by doin those tunes?
Oh so that's why Sound Choice was sued for $16 million and lost!
Posts: 30 | From: u s of a | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by potatoe: I have done a little research on licensing for karaoke and have found that the cost's are anywhere from free with permission which I have found to be the majority up to $1000 per song and even no price at all as they will not give it up, it's a one time fee no matter how many disk's you print. The artist's that give permission understand that their classic song/s being used in karaoke may bolster new sales of the compilation music at retail stores. Also I have found that I can strip the vocals from a cd I purchased and create my own karaoke tracks that are totally legal to play. If I do that I don't pay for a disk with 15 tracks that have 13 useless songs! I have too many disk's that have never ever had one song played. So please do not over estimate the value of karaoke versions. If no one is singing it I am not going to put it in my car cd player and tap my toes!
This is so wrong on so many counts. Please refrain from stating what you learned through "a little research" as fact.
Thanks.
A comment from Soundchoice! Maybe Soundchoice is not quite as dead as I thought. Maybe we'll have some new discs being produced in 2010 or mp3+G download service?
I have been purchasing Soundchoice music for karaoke for the deleted songs in their catalogue from Stingray music in mp3 or mp4 form. It's just a pity there are no mp3+G files yet but they say it's coming. Is Stingray music (The Karaoke Channel) an affiliate company of Soundchoice? I also notice that venuevj have been for awhile now been extending their Soundchoice song catalogue & recently added Music Factory to their download song catalogue.
Posts: 233 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2008
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Post your source?!?!! Otherwise you have no leg to stand on. Being you are a newbie here, you aren't being taken seriously just posting 'facts' you know nothing of!
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