Could it be that there was a flaw in the manufacturing of these two disks and is an isolated incident? There was a time when the manufacturing machine accidentally scratched a whole shipment of disks and SC had to replace them.

Secondly, we do check these things out. Typically, we don't breathe without checking out our products thoroughly. We haven't had any problems playing those discs in our building. Our replicator didn't have any problems playing those discs in their building. The friendly KJs who field-tested a few 8700 discs didn't have any problems.

Now, I'm sure it's possible that there could be bad discs - that's always a possibility. But in the past hour, I have taken 3 different production copies of 8700 and gone through the following machines:

Panasonic SL-VM 525
2 - JVC 800
JVC XL MV-33
2 - RSQ MV 333
RSQ 222
Vocopro 3000
Venturer
2 - CDGK 90
Singing Machine SMG 228
Singing Machine Karaoke TV

As well as 3 Sony and Koss boom boxes.

And they all played flawlessly - I mean, not even a hiccup. 8700 is playing at this moment as I type this. So I'm anxious to hear from some other folks. Hopefully, it will be either a misunderstanding or a limited problem.

If there is a problem, we'll fix it and make it right. Thanks for your patient understanding and civility in dealing with these issues.

1) The new copy protection may result in problems with these discs playing in a DVD player. Sorry, I knew this but completely forgot it when I first read the post.

Of course, I think in terms of CDG, not DVD.

2) This piece of information has nothing to do with the original statement: "...the world's best copy protection program that is so good, it even keeps your discs from playing in regular CD-G players...".

As far as we know - as well as those compact disc and computer industry experts who helped advise us - this is false and untrue.

Nonetheless, I'm happy to confirm that these discs played flawlessly on CDG machines that range in cost from $150 to $750. Now unless the KJ business has changed overnight and everyone is using a DVD player instead of a CDG player, the DVD issue will not present a large problem in the business of karaoke. For the moment, although we regret the inconvenience it may cause some of our customers, this is something Sound Choice will have to accept - especially if it helps stem the tide of counterfeiting of our products.

To give you some perspective about this issue, $10K doesn't come close to representing even 1% of the money we lose to those who illegally counterfeit our products - on an annual basis.

One really obvious aspect of this you seem to completely overlook is that this technology immediately helps to level the playing field for all KJs. We spent 2-3 years warning people about piracy and how it would detrimentally affect the entire karaoke business. Much of the response was that we were just being greedy and protecting our own interests. Now, suddenly the legitimate KJ community realizes it is being put out of business thanks to counterfeiting, and KJs come to us with the expectation that Sound Choice will pay to do something about it, whether that be new technology, KAPA or other things. You're complaining about spending a few hundred dollars for a CDG machine? Try adding 6 zeroes to that on an ongoing basis. (As an aside, more than half the KAPA complaints are KJs ratting out or making up lies about their competition in order to put them out of business.)

Well, now we’ve come up with something to help everyone stay in this business and even out the playing field a little more. At least now you know all the KJs who are now using 8700, et. al., are using legitimately purchased copies.

And before you wave around the "competition" card so boldly, you might consider the fact that competition can work both ways. I wonder how your customers will react when they find out your other competitors - maybe even the two you visited last night - are using 8700 and the other SC copy-protected products, and you no longer have Mama, Headbangers, etc. because you don't use standard equipment?

Cliff

It will be interesting to be certain

I think it would be funny that if that data track prevented a lot of copying (as I previously heard, and then tried), that SC needlessly spent all this money on copy protection that renders discs useless on many types of players.

I was reading some of the reviews on Amazon.com about the Charley Pride CD that has MediaCloq, and many people are finding that CD won't play on the newer multi-format CD/DVD/VCD/MP3 players, or even those 200 or 300 disc changers.

All I can say is I'm glad that I have a retailer that let me try the disc first. Many people order online, and would have had no advance warning that MediaCloq would render their players obsolete, and then had no recourse about the disc (either 8700, or the Pride disc).

I have yet to find a standard CD player or cd+g player that won't support 8700.

BC, any info on this?

Nonetheless, let me address a few points about MediaCloQ.

- First of all, we're sorry that we have this situation, and some of our customers cannot use their DVD players with the MediaCloQ discs. We will address all customer complaints at 800-788-4487. Please call and ask to speak to a Customer Service Representative. At this point in time, it is my understanding that we are refunding money directly to any customer who wants to return a MediaCloQ disc upon return of the original disc.

Our Customer Service Representatives can handle this for you. Please do not send your disc to us without authorization. It will only delay the process.

- Secondly, Sound Choice has been told that there may be a DVD compatible version available sometime soon.

Until we have a chance to test it, it's too early to know if and when we will incorporate Version 2. If and when we have a DVD-compatible V2, we will then have to decide which discs, if any, that have already been released with V1 will be manufactured again using V2.

- Lastly, I have seen the MediaCloQ discs characterized as 'defective' discs. This is inaccurate and wrong. There is no 'defect' with MediaCloQ because those discs won't play in DVD players, CD-ROM drives, or some car CD players. That is a necessary by-product of the copy protection design at this time.

The MediaCloQ discs play in every CD+G player Sound Choice, Sunncomm and our dealer network have been able to test. So far, there has not been a single complaint about the MediaCloQ discs not playing in a CD+G machine.

Of course it is not our intent to limit or exclude our existing customer base, and we will work to resolve this situation as quickly as we can.

I can't speak for anyone but me, but this is totally about my non-ability to play those discs on my Pioneer 555. I borrowed 8700 from my retailer, and it wouldn't play audio, so why would I buy the disc? You would feel differently about this had you spent good money on a top of the line player that plays all these multi-format discs, only to find that the discs you like the most now won't work on it.

Quote from BC last week or so:

The simple and sorry fact of the matter is that we will lose more sales to people who copy our discs if they aren't copy protected, than we will to folks who don't purchase our products because they aren't DVD compatible. Unfortunately, this is a necessary solution for us at this time.

By the way: "The issue for me is not about the ability to copy the disc, it's the ability to play it and enjoy it's content, like I do with all other discs I buy. Simple."

Based on your pius statements on this thread on the SC site, I'm not sure I understand your claims of downloading and copying 8700 that I read on this thread on the KW website (17th post in the thread).

http://karaoketalk.infopop.net/3/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=830299025&f=740299025&m=7732963101

Dan
Member
From: London, Ont, Canada
Registered: Wednesday, 28 February 2001
Posts: 306

No, it was Sound Choice that saw my 15 MP3s labelled "SC8125-01" etc. LOL

Actually, when I discovered I was banned, I followed the procedures their email said to, to find out why. You probably heard that Metallica started this whole thing of looking for their songs on there, and getting that user banned. Well my mortal sin was having an MP3 of Kenny Rogers "Buy Me A Rose". Oh well, Napster is no big loss LOL

About Limewire, it's not as easy to use as Napster was. It found songs fine, but getting them to download was a pain, and real hit and miss. Fortunately, it found so many, that I was usually able to get one of them to download. Sometimes you'd be S.O.L. if it only returned 4 or 5 matches to your request. Haven't been on it in a while. I downloaded most of the songs for the new SC Mama disc, before I found out my machine wouldn't play it, so I haven't bothered with the Silly Sing Along disc

posted Monday, 24 September 2001 15:26

Maybe I'm not understanding your true meaning, and if that's the case, then I apologize. But it sounds to me like you're talking out of both sides of your neck. I'm sure we'd all be interested to hear how the bigtime copy protection was busted.

As for that leap to conclusions from my KW post, you with a name such as yours would need explanation. I downloaded the original songs that Sound Choice put on 8700. As far as I know, none of these Napster-type porgrams have the ability to download CDG versions of songs, only audio.
Got a point? Didn't think so. Why don't don't crawl back into your hole and come back when you have something useful to say.

However, I'm extremely bitter right now. Although the probable majority of the people on this message board feel the same way I do, I'm just gonna go ahead and say that this copy protection thing is NOT fair. I understand that you have been losing alot of money by having people illegally copying your product... but who hasn't?!?!?! Personally, I've never come across any other regular music cd's that can't be copied, and just who do you think you are by telling those of us who OWN your discs, that we can't copy them to our heart's content, FOR OUR OWN USE!! There's nothing more annoying than going from bar to bar, night after night, carrying ALL your discs with you that you MIGHT possibly be singing from. Sure, I make karaoke compilations of my own favorite stuff that I own, but who wouldn't if they could... especially if you're just in it for the singing (not a host). I don't know if there's anyone out there who likes AND performs every darn song off of any one disc!

Simply put, your sales will always be good as long as you keep puting out the quality product. Your selection (especially as of the past year or so) is fantastic! Between my friend and I, 90% of the songs that we wanted done three years ago (or more), have been done... by you!

I am not evil. I'm just a guy who likes having a fun karaoke experience.

[This message has been edited by Slimbone (edited September 29, 2001).]