posted
I may be beating a dead horse, or opening a can of worms, or insert-your-favorite-cliche here, but...
I've seen several local KJs switch to computer, CAVS or laptop format. They are all extremely proud of the switch, and are eager to show off the software and hardware.
Most all of them tout 50,000+ song libraries. One company even claims over 110,000!
And most all of them flinch when I ask how they amassed so many titles in such a short time, when they started with 8000+ songlists. They claim it's all legal, that they pay monthly, they have the original discs, or whatever.
I understand that if I switch to laptop karaoke, I can load all my original CDGs into the system.
I guess my questions are these:
If I wanted to add more songs, would I have to buy CDGs and load them, or are there services for downloading karaoke music or discs from the web?
Where can I get more information on these services?
Is it possible that my friends are getting these enormous disc lists illegally?
And finally, am I that naive?
PM me if this information is sensitive...
Posts: 6 | From: Bedford, TX | Registered: Jan 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Starwerks Karaoke: If I wanted to add more songs, would I have to buy CDGs and load them, or are there services for downloading karaoke music or discs from the web?
This is the way I prefer to do it. Then there is no question that I paid for the music. 1 individual set of discs per computer. There are download sites that you can pay per download, but I don't trust them, plus they are usually ripped at a lower quality than I prefer.
Going from 8000 to 100000 songs after they move to computer, yeah chances are they are no longer using a legal library, no way they own all the discs to cover that amount of songs. I have been buying discs steadily for 15 years for my compnay, have over 12K songs.
posted
I was hoping you'd chime in, Lonman! Cool beans, then I'm not worried about trying to keep up with the Joneses on that one.
I'll need to build the laptop system from the ground up as my current library of CDGs is static, staying in the club 7 nights a week. I figured I'd start a new library using CB's Essential 1-9 as a base. That'll give me 4050 songs right off the bat.
Then I can add other songs and artist-specific discs to fill in the gaps.
Any other ideas on creating a new library?
Posts: 6 | From: Bedford, TX | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
Having the biggest library (legal or otherwise) is a pain. It's a pain in the wallet having to swallow the costs of books that are larger than a Tokyo phone book, and it's a pain for the singers to search through 8 kagillion titles to find that one Anne Murray song that they've been singing for the last 52 weeks.
Sure it's an ego boost to have someone say "damn you've got everything!" But honestly, what's the chances that 95% of the songs will never get song, and you're going to be listening to that same Anne Murray song week after week? I'd take those odds.
-------------------- E Blitz Entertainment Bay City, Michigan Posts: 373 | From: Bay City, Mi, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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quote:Originally posted by DJFang: Sure it's an ego boost to have someone say "damn you've got everything!"
Funny things is I get that statement all the time from customers that say they've been to the shows that have more (advertised) than I do. I don't list 10-12 versions of each song & have some of the harder to find songs that aren't available anymore.
posted
Speaking as a customer and not a karaoke host, I don't need 100,000 songs to keep me happy if there are other aspects of the show that are appealing, and I have seen successful shows with small libraries. Granted I have enough of my own songs that song selection is not a major issue for me.
For computerized hosts, I have two simple requests: if it's in your book don't tell me you can't find it on the computer and unless you really have everything (and I've yet to find one that does), please have the ability to play my discs even if you don't want to carry your own.
Posts: 1261 | From: Milton, MA 02186 | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
I completely agree with you Mark. My sentiments exactly. Sounds like you do karaoke just like I do. I use my own disks 95% of the time. I will add, too, PLEASE keep you disk player in good working order for the people that prefer to use it. Sometimes I find that one of my disks works perfectly at home, but bombs on the KJ's machine.
Posts: 440 | From: Kirkland, Washington | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
This is great info, guys. I just redid the songbooks at my nightclub gig, over 8900 songs, and the books were huge! I think keeping the number of songs around 6000-7000, within reason, is perfect for party and wedding gigs.
And regardless of the computer setup, I will ALWAYS have a CDG player onhand. I agree with Willy, it's irritating to bring your own discs to show, only to find out they can't support you.
Posts: 6 | From: Bedford, TX | Registered: Jan 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Willy C: I completely agree with you Mark. My sentiments exactly. Sounds like you do karaoke just like I do. I use my own disks 95% of the time. I will add, too, PLEASE keep you disk player in good working order for the people that prefer to use it. Sometimes I find that one of my disks works perfectly at home, but bombs on the KJ's machine.
This isn't necessarily a out of shape player. I keep my player well maintained & 1 will not read burn discs very well & even some original disc that have minor scratches - but it is an older machine too. The my JVC player doesn't read some discs as well as my Pioneer player.
One way I have seen hosts with large song lists manage the size of their books is for dupes they list the song and then list all of the versions they have in the right hand column. That way, rather than one line per version they can get 3 or 4 on a line.
This leads to a couple of other peeves of mine. Even if a host has its own disc numbering system or is using a computer so they don't need disc numbers, I would appreciate an indication of what version of the songs the host has. Similarly, if I request a specific version I expect to get that version and not the first one that pops up on the computer> I generally roll with the version I'm given but the whole point of computers is to make it easier to pull what is asked for.
Posts: 1261 | From: Milton, MA 02186 | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
The only question I have is when these operators have converted thier 55000 to 110000 songs to computer how could they possible paid the royalites to to song owner, even if it is only 9cents a song thats still $5000 to $10000 and that a lot of shows to get your money back, now that they actually have two copies of the disc one on cd and one digital not to mention the two copyrites they have to get permission for. I run a mix of cds (ones I cant get permission) and laptop and what a headache finding copyrite owners and I only have 8000+ songs These cheats are making it hard for all us honost operaters to make a living
Posts: 7 | From: Sydney | Registered: Dec 2008
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That's my two words I use WHENEVER I hear someone that's got 40K songs! I have only bought a handful of cdgs in the past few years since retiring, but even then, after nearly ten years and being QUITE the fanatic on buying tunes, I had over 16K songs! Just over 9K with no dupes!
And yes, I HAVE the discs to prove it.
What I've told the bars that hire these jokers is "sure wouldn't want to be you when the law catches up to these thieves! They'll go after the dude with the library AND the venues that have knowingly hired them!"
To me, having a computer is MERELY for the convienience, and the ability to preserve rare songs, as the discontinued songs (discs or manufacturers) just are impossible to replace.
That doesn't give you a license to STEAL!
-------------------- Matt Posts: 3332 | From: Independence, mo | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
Never mind the royalties. I would think the acquisition cost per song is significantly higher than 9 cents a song, probably 50 cents or more, which would mean an outlay of $50K or so. I don't see that happening.
Posts: 1261 | From: Milton, MA 02186 | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Matt it may not be a licence to steal but for every honest KJ out there who is 1:1, how many out there are 2:1, 5:1, with obviously illegal libraries (50-100,000+) out there.
This is probably the main reason why disc only hosts dislike anything to do with computers. Until a system or enforcement is developed and/or implemented, the honest hosts will have to put up with it.
Posts: 377 | From: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
That's exactly how I feel. I don't running a laptop system, but my former-Boy-Scout honesty won't let me run a show without a disc base.
It seems singers are overly impressed with shows that flaunt 50,000+ songlists, regardless of the quality of the songs and/or copies of the same song. This is unfortunate, as I feel singers may be missing on a quality show while out looking for quantity of songs.
I'm a firm believer that if the show is well run, and there is a good VARIETY of music, the singers will enjoy themselves more.
Posts: 6 | From: Bedford, TX | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
i am using a laptop to dj between songs and my bar goes to dance music at midnight so it makes sense to have my stuff there, however i still use disks. using the laptop for everything is the next step. i have a friend that runs his show off the comp and he boasts over 110,000 songs as well. he has a few books of the most popular songs, a sample of about 200 pages, and he just says to come tell him what you want and i know of only a few instances where he doesn't have a song because it doesn't exist for karaoke usually.i like using the laptop for ease of use and it reduces load times, plus you don't have to worry about keeping disks in good quality by being super careful.
Posts: 4 | From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
I can guarantee you he didn't pay a minimum of $55,000 for his music. Another pirate. Another reason why many have disdain for computer systems.
Posts: 377 | From: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
I have a little over 5K unique songs and I play from a computer. I own every single disk and it is a pain to rip and catalog each disk but it must be done. Some of the programs will catalog the disk as its being ripped but I wrote my own program so everything is entered manually. As for the books, I only list each song one time and each book has both by title and by artist lists in them. I think its more important for singers to be able to find what they want than to show every version of every song. I can show a singer the versions I have if they ask but usually I just pick the best version for them. If I don't have a song a regualr wants, I will get it for them and they can sing it the next time. I used to special order for everyone but some requests are by one time fly bys and for things no one else may ever ask for. If its worth getting, a regular will eventually as for it.
Posts: 71 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
May I ask how to load your CDG's into your laptop or computer and what software to use to play them? And how do you make the graphics(lyrics)appear on your TV screen?
I appreciate it!
Posts: 1 | From: Lodi, California | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
Dan, Are you asking me? If so, I use MTU's software the most to "rip" the CDs to MP3+G. Then, as I said, I wrote my own show program. For most I would highly highly suggest MTU's hoster program or something similar. And keep in mind, very few computer CD players are truely CD+G compatible. Not even the one MTU is selling is truely compatible these days.
Posts: 71 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
You guys know of any website on how to add more cdgs to Sax & Dotty Program? A shipmate (Navy) load all my cdgs and I never get around in learning them because I was a computer illiterate at the time. He has long been retired and I don't know how to get hold of him. I have a few cdgs I bought through the years and I want to load them myself but I don't know how to do it. Your help is much appreciated.
Posts: 72 | From: Anaheim, CA | Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:Originally posted by DanBanez: May I ask how to load your CDG's into your laptop or computer and what software to use to play them? And how do you make the graphics(lyrics)appear on your TV screen?
I appreciate it!
you should be able to play them with karaoke hoster software. I use POWER CDG. As for playing on a TV, as far as I know, you need a video card that supports multiple monitors (it extends your desktop to a second monitor) and then you need to "push" the screen off the edge of your laptop's viewable area to the right normally. It would be a whole lot easier to buy a $100-$150 dollar karaoke player.
Posts: 10 | From: South Bend | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
Ok, the only reason I joined this forum was to add my input to this topic. I have been a karaoke DJ since 1995 and started with laser discs and cd+g's. 90% of my library was Sound Choice and to this day, they are still my favorite. I was the guy purchasing about $300 a month in new cd's and had a selection of about 15,000 and that was 5 years ago. I got tired of discs scratching or breaking and lugging them around to shows.....so I purchased a laptop and Hoster. For 6 months straight, at every show, I was uploading my cdg's into my computer wondering if the day would ever come when I had all my discs finished. 1st problem I ran into was because of some of my Sound Choice discs. 1st, on several, the last track would not upload. 2nd, Sound Choice went through a period (around 8720 - 8740) where the discs had copy protection on them and could not be uploaded. I paid to join a "club" where I could get these missing tracks and discs and slowly completed my library.
I've been totally computer based now for 4 years and have to say, if I had to go back to discs, I'd go nuts!! I would 110% recommend it to anyone out there regardless of how big or small their library is.
As far as "illegal" discs, here's my take. I used to dispise KJs out there that used copied discs and believe me, there were several. I considered myself the only "honest" KJ in town. Then, i read the small print on the Sound Choice discs....."Not Intended For Public Performance" or something like that. Gee, I'm breaking the law being an honest KJ. Go figure.
Oh well, final thought, if you are a KJ thinking about converting to a laptop, DO IT! I lot of disc companies are offering downloadable discs in mp3+g format that will go directly into your computer. No touching, scratching, abusing ever again. It's awesome.
Any questions on "how to", let me know. I've helped several KJ's in the area get converted and am always willing to help others.
Posts: 2 | From: Lima, Ohio | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
Trisoft will rip those protected disks, and Hoster can get that last track. Just press the eject button on the player when the bar stops moving. At least I think it works the same as their non-hoster product. I'm with you as far as being "legal". I get offeres all the time from customers to add their disks to my machine. I find out what they have and buy it myself or continue playing their disks in my player. I am also lucky in that I started early on, so many of my disks have only been read one time. So I have very good graphics on all but three songs and those are not that bad.
Posts: 71 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Great news, Knightshow. Now I urge EVERYONE to do it the right way. I know its quite the chore getting them imported but that is the only way it can be completely above board. It might seem like buying one of those disks is ok if you have most of the originals but you must be honest with yourself here..
On a side note, this now opens up the door for SC to sell files directly which I think will be a huge boost for them.
Posts: 71 | Registered: Mar 2006
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I am happy for you hosts who can now avoid lugging your discs around with some comfort. I am not sure that gets you all the way to direct sales of downloadable files by SC. Setting aside the custom side being in Australia as a potential solution, SC may still be bound by whatever agreements they have with the rightsholders to the music and lyrics which may but restrictions on what they can sell that don't flow through to what the end users can do.
Posts: 1261 | From: Milton, MA 02186 | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Well we all knew the day would finally come, it was just a matter of when. I doubt it's going to change where the industry is headed, but for everyone of us who tried to play by the rules as much as possible, it's a win in our court.
posted
I got my laptop today and I am using Compu Host...wow this weekend it will be awesome not toting 3 boxes of cdg's! Thanks SC and welcome to the Digital age! Now if SC will release new music sometime, all will be right in the world.
Posts: 30 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2007
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posted
Re-post subject due to non-reply. Please Help! You guys know of any website on how to add more cdgs to Sax & Dotty Program? A shipmate (Navy) load all my cdgs and I never get around in learning them because I was a computer illiterate at the time. He has long been retired and I don't know how to get hold of him. I have a few cdgs I bought through the years and I want to load them myself but I don't know how to do it. Your help is much appreciated. And yes, I have all the original cdgs. Been a KJ for 15 years. Thanks!
Posts: 72 | From: Anaheim, CA | Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:Originally posted by jeffand3js: I considered myself the only "honest" KJ in town. Then, i read the small print on the Sound Choice discs....."Not Intended For Public Performance" or something like that. Gee, I'm breaking the law being an honest KJ. Go figure.
"Unauthorized" public performance is a violation of of applicable laws. If your club that you are playing in is paying their ASCAP (and the likes) fees, the performance is not longer unauthorized & is completely legal! If the club is not paying their fees, the legal aspect still falls on the club & not the kj - unless the kj is running illegal discs to begin with.
posted
Well I would like to know if an artist is a NO-NO but a karaoke company is working overseas cause they don't have the same restrictions as we do in the U.S.A. if we buy from one of these companies that are making the discs overseas aand we play it in a US Bar who is liable then? Because SoundChoice got the license does that mean we can play the disks without getting into trouble?
Posts: 170 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
I would think the answer is yes, since the artist (or the rightsholder) is presumably being paid licensing fees for the disc abroad and the performance of the songs would be covered under the ASCAP fees paid by the US bar.
Posts: 1261 | From: Milton, MA 02186 | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Well thank you Mark, this is getting a little confusing on what we can and can't play and I plan on staying 100% legal!!!
Posts: 170 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
I started using CompuHost last year after an ill-fated try of Rox Box and KJ Rip N Zip (Not the best programs in the world). Then I purchased CompuHost's cataloging program because I got tired of entering the titles and artists by hand as I ripped my discs. I'm really pleased with the upgrades they've made where I'm getting much better ripping results from any disc drive I use. My beef on the whole thing is this...none of the databases are correct. Many of the titles are wrong. I know, because I own the discs.
My initial response was to send emails to CompuHost to tell them, since the fact is, if their data is wrong, so will my songbooks be wrong, if I use their cataloging program. They responded back but it was pretty much, "Yeah, thanks, but no thanks." They said if they could verify my data, they would change their database, but their competitor has the same info so it must be right and I must be wrong.
I wanted to send them a link to Digicat, but I couldn't find one on the SC site any longer, and I doubted they would accept an email with an attachment like that from me.
So, I'm really dissatisified with that aspect. Everything else is awesome! I love, love, love how quickly I can grab a song for someone to sing especially if they have a history of singing at my show. I never used to play bumper music between acts, but it's so easy to do now and I think it helps keep the atmosphere upbeat and lively. It's also easier on the back with less to lug around and set up time is less.
One problem I had was with weird computer noises coming thru the speakers. I have since solved the problem, but not the way I thought I would solve it. Was wondering if anyone else encountered this?
Posts: 429 | From: Lincoln, NE USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
If there are Sound Choice discs that are wrong, you could try sending them a link to the specific disc listing on the Sound Choice page. If you can't trust the manufacturer, who can you trust? Of course, there are some discs with multiple versions where one or more songs may have been replaced for rights reasons.
Posts: 1261 | From: Milton, MA 02186 | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Okay all you computer KJs, please tell me how you protect your music investment from your employees.
A KJ here in town lost 4 shows a week to one of his employees who ripped his music from his harddrive, bought some equipment and started his own shows.
No one I know seems to know how to protect the files from being copied and still be able to use them.
Posts: 429 | From: Lincoln, NE USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
I don't think there is a fool proof way to do it. Vista is much better than XP for this kind of security to block acces to folders by non-administrators, but there ways to get around anything especially if the employee takes the computer home at night.
I have a couple of people who are "concerned for my welfare" and have offered to work for me occasionaly for free to give me a night off, but I highly suspect ulterior motives
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