posted
I recently did some research into BMI/ASCAP. Getting prices for one night a week of karaoke. Based on occupany, would be less than $400 bucks for one year. Knowing this, I approached an owner, where presently I do a monthly show, to find out if he was interested in doing a weekly show. His response was 'not really' because of the fees. I mentioned I might be interested in paying those fees, in exchange for a one year contract. He said he would consider that. My question to my fellow kj's is 'would you pay the fees to land the gig? I told him, I was also interested in paying for a spot in the paper to announce the show, and possibly doing t-shirts to promote the show. I view it as a small investment, to land what could be profitable outcome for both of us. Curious to your thoughts. Thanks Chuck
-------------------- UB Star Karaoke Show Posts: 650 | From: Massillon, Ohio USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
Sounds like an interesting plan, but consider up front what youre dealing with...
Here's a bar owner that is concerned about the cost of about $1.33 a day, which is really nothing, versus the added income karaoke can bring on a night (minus your pay of course) Suddenly the 400 dollars isn't significant, but paying YOU will be much more so. How long before he feels your fee is too expensive?
How much of your pay are you willing to spend to advertise this guy's place ? Typically, that is an owners responsibility. They have to want to advertise.. If they are too cheap to advertise at all, you should not expect much in the way of assistance from this guy. Kind of a hairy situation ... not really much of a partnership.
Posts: 575 | From: West Hartford, CT USA | Registered: Apr 2000
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posted
If a bar is too cheap to pay their fees or advertising, there is no way in h e double hockey sticks is he or she going to pay you a decent wage.
Posts: 377 | From: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Mar 2002
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I agree the guy will cheap out on you. Even if he signs a contract, you'll have to take him to court to collect, and he'll likely have some argument as to why you weren't working out that he had to let you go.
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I appreciate your thoughts. The owner really is a nice guy, just set in his ways. I've done his Halloween and New Years Party for the last 5 yrs. When I lost the 2 nights up the road from him, he offered the monthly gig to help me out. I've made it know on this board the pirates out number me big time in this area. I'm strongly considering this because I really want a weekly gig. Many of my regulars want it to. I want to do the advertising, primarily because of the way I was let go at the last place when the new owners took over. Nobody really know how or where to find me now. Plus, I design the add to my liking(maybe a little dig at my previous employer). The owner really is a nice guy, and I do trust him. Not that there isn't a chance I could get screwed. I always believe in the good of people. I just wondered how you all felt on the subject. I do appreciate your responses. I know a few people in a few places, so the advertising really would be all that bad. I have a gentleman, who has done shirts for me in the past. I do a show for the holidays for his company, and I get shirts when I need them. Not a bad trade off. Again, I would be designing them to my liking. Again, thanks for the responses.
posted
Also, something to consider, if the owner has a jukebox or music piped in, he/she probably has to pay BMI/ASCAP fees anyway.
There's been a lot of studies done about how the right kind of music directed at the business atmosphere not only increases the number of patrons, but also influences the amount patrons spend. So $400 a year is a very small business expense.
-------------------- The Pappy Smoke, Magic & Mirrors Entertainment A song on the lips is therapy for heart, mind and soul Posts: 249 | From: Greenville, SC USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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according to a BMI rep who came by the last place I worked at, depending on the size of the place, there is a JUKEBOX license that these bars can play, and if they're small enough, it's not worth it for them to pursue it.
Which is funny in that they'll go RIGHT after these same bars if they run karaoke! Not live bands, but karaoke!! Despite the license being the same for both!
I guess the reaon is, the live bands come and go, but karaoke is usually for a much longer time!
-------------------- Matt Posts: 3332 | From: Independence, mo | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Originally posted by SmokeMagicMirrors: Also, something to consider, if the owner has a jukebox or music piped in, he/she probably has to pay BMI/ASCAP fees anyway.
There's been a lot of studies done about how the right kind of music directed at the business atmosphere not only increases the number of patrons, but also influences the amount patrons spend. So $400 a year is a very small business expense.
The jukebox fee is different from the "enhanced" recorded music - which karaoke falls into. Even if they had a license for a dj, they would need to pay an additional fee for the use of karaoke.
posted
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Lonman The jukebox fee is different from the "enhanced" recorded music - which karaoke falls into. Even if they had a license for a dj, they would need to pay an additional fee for the use of karaoke. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They get you any way they can. You'd think if they'd simplify things, it wouldn't be so painful for a business to license music in general.
Do they have any such thing as an annual license to cover the venue size for everything?
I guess I ought to research this in detail JIC. Is there a web site I can glean factual info from?
-------------------- The Pappy Smoke, Magic & Mirrors Entertainment A song on the lips is therapy for heart, mind and soul Posts: 249 | From: Greenville, SC USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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You can get an idea from BMI http://www.bmi.com/licensing/forms/ede.pdf What the casts are. It really isn't that much to a bar once broken down on a daily basis.
posted
Isn't there one more organization that represents European composers and such? By time each of them get their little slice of the pie, those fees add up quickly.
-------------------- UB Star Karaoke Show Posts: 650 | From: Massillon, Ohio USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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No, ASCAP and BMI are two of the agencies for the US, they have no jurisdication in Canada. SOCAN, the Canadian Agency has no jurisdiction in the US, so users only pay to the agency/ies in their country that has the jurisdiction. Is that clear as mud. LOL.
Posts: 377 | From: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Isn't SESAC still a "little brother" of BMI/ASCAP?
-------------------- one of the last legitimate karaoke hosts in the Pacific Northwest... Posts: 745 | From: Portland, OR, USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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