posted
In my karaoke travels I have noticed differing policies in establishments where karaoke is offered, regarding whether or not karaoke performers are allowed to sing karaoke songs verbatim, when these songs contain profanity within the lyrics. When the published lyrics flow onto the screen does that mean they are all fair game to sing, even if they constitue profanity? Are there civil rights and "free speech" implications here, or is it all up to the individual establishment owner on a case-by-case basis?
When censorship practices are evoked, should they be clearly advertised and promulgated in order that everyone clearly knows and so there is no question about it?
The primary reason I bring this up is due to my suffering a modicum of embarrassment at a karaoke show last night. I visited a new establishment where I had never been before. During my performance I encountered a couple of "swear words" in the lyrics as they marched across the screen, In order to make my best attempt at performing a "true" rendition of the song (the way in which it was intended to be performed), and to maintain the proper spirit and texture, etc., I went ahead and sang the song just as it was presented on the screen. During the instrumental bridge, the KJ rather abruptly and apparently angrily as well, proceeded to set-me-straight about the anti-profanity rule in the establishment. Needless to say I became a bit taken aback, affronted, and embarrassed over the incident and they manner in which it was handled.
In the aftermath of all this, it occurred to me to start this thread in order to toss this issue around a bit....just to make a determination of what the consensus of opinion and the overall industry convention might in fact be regarding the topic.
What say you?
Posts: 682 | From: Seattle, Washington, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Sounds like the KJ didn't handle it well. If the song is listed in the book, then it's fair game to me, UNLESS, the KJ tells you otherwise beforehand. I've worked bars where Ode To My Car was banned, but the unedited version of Because I Got High (which I find more offensive) wasn't. I've had no problem complying with an owner's censorship, so long as they make it clear and we can thus avoid false starts and the like that you went through. I try to glance at the slips as they come up for this and other reasons (like no singer name).
Posts: 232 | From: Chicago area | Registered: Nov 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Sometimes, the first page in the songbook has a notice of "No Profanity" allowed, if the venue prefers it that way. This apparently doesn't mean that you can't do the song; it means you should change the lyrics.
I visited a new establishment for the first time, and after handing in my first slip, the KJ visited me at my table and asked "Is there profanity in this song? Because they don't allow it here." That's a good way to go about it, in case somebody misses the "rules" on the front page.
Rockhawk, what song were you doing? Just curious as to how offensive it really was.
posted
I believe I mentioned this a while back, but it bears repeating as it's germaine to this thread.
I used to frequent a bar in the eastern Cleveland suburb of Euclid called the Lakeland Tavern. The owner was an old country, old school, no-nonsense woman named Margaret. Anyhow, one night I wanted to sing "Strokin'" and Nick, my friend who was the karaoke host at the time, said no, Margaret wouldn't allow a song like that.
Yet there it was, plain as day on the jukebox, "Strokin'" by Clarence Carter! What's the deal?
I remember somebody going up to sing "Rodeo Song" at this same establishment and Margaret was wincing.
Just so you know, it wasn't only the patrons that had a hard time with her. She used to follow the poor barmaids all around the bar to make sure they weren't overpouring on shots or anything like that. Sheesh!
Also, I went and sang "Strokin'" at another Euclid bar, Mangina's (no longer in business). Moe, the absolutely sweet lady who hosted the show with her husband Joe, warned me that Kenny Mangina might not appreciate the language in the song, so I said "Aw shoot, Clarence Carter" instead of "Ooh s--t, Clarence Carter".
I do have a rule about dirty songs--if there are kids around (and there sometimes are), NOTHING DIRTY! I'm also sheepish about singing that kind of stuff if my Mom is in the audience.
Best,
Mark
Posts: 1595 | From: Willoughby Hills, Ohio, USA | Registered: Apr 1999
| IP: Logged |
That's terrible that the KJ embarrassed you like that. In the middle of the song yet. I probably would have walked right off the stage. At least he could have waited until you were done and just told you then, in a much nicer way. He should remove the offensive songs or like others have pointed out, have some sort of notification in the songbook.
I recall taking my own disc of "You Oughta Know" to a place that didn't have it. I asked the KJ first if it would be alright to sing the "f" word. So it's probably best to keep that in mind, for those you bring their own music.
posted
It's nearly impossible to keep everybody appraised at every time if profanity is allowed or not.
I usually say something (at a venue I worked at initially... no cursing allowed) to the singer AFTER the song... and they're given another chance to screw up. They do it again, and they're not allowed to sing again (the bar's rules!).
PERSONALLY, I think it's a crock. If it's in the song, then it should be allowed to be sang.
Now many a KJ I know will mention to the singer to NOT sing/say the curse words right before they hand them the microphone. AND I've seen instances when the offending singer still did it, and BOOM! They shut the whole song down, grabbed the mic back, and proceeded to 86 them...
Scary stuff, huh?
Matt
Posts: 3332 | From: Independence, mo | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
I love James Taylor's version of Steamroller Blues, but I've never performed it publically because of the use of the MF word which I'm sure is over the top about anywhere ladies are present. A shame really because it's a song I have a blast doing at home.
Now I wouldn't think twice about doing "Strokin'" because everytime I've ever heard that song done the ladies all get up and dance to it.
I've always been rather shocked at how popular such a graphic song is with the fairer sex along with another perennial crowd favorite Sir Mix-A-Lot's "Baby Got Back".
I mean "straighten out my anaconda"?, geeze! If you walked up to a gal in the bar and said something like "Baby your butt really straightens out my anaconda!" I bet you'd get slapped silly!
I haven't taken Steamroller Blues out of my book yet, but maybe I should since I think it would cause problems if it were sung?
posted
For the record, it's "My anaconda don't want none unless you got buns hun."
But some venues I attend out here ENCOURAGE you to swear (LOL). Well, I always say just go with your judgment. If it's in a restauraunt or is a primarily conservative crowd (or conservative KJ), think twice before doing it. Sometimes I reserve these types of songs towards the end of the night where everyone seems to be more intoxicated (thus more accepting).
[This message has been edited by Grateful (edited February 01, 2003).]
Posts: 1487 | From: Irvine, CA, USA | Registered: Jun 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
With my gigs, first when I talk to the owner about doing the gig, I inform them I have a bunch of dirty songs and if it's OK for people to sing them. If they don't mind then I go to the bartender who is working at the time of the gig and let them know about it. Then at the gig when someone requests one of them or I decide I feel like doing one, I tell the crowd"I want to warn you , the next song might be offensive" and I ask if anyone objects. If no one does I go ahead with it. I learned the hard way because I was fired from two different gigs because once the female owner objected and another time the female bartender objected to the "Pussycat Song". From now on I let everyone know ahead of time
Posts: 95 | From: maspeth, ny, usa | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
As far as what this KJ did, I probably would've done the same thing just not in such an embarrassing way. Usually I don't need to say anything, the crowd will usually do it when they hear it. We have a no profanity show as well, in which no songs are listed that have profanity in them. I used to fight the owner on this, but went along with it as I needed this gig at the time. Well we discovered a couple of things, we did lose the rowdy screaming kids that wanted to sing every bad word song they could put up (along with alot of problems), but on the other hand we developed a more behaved clientel (that sang better as well) - turns out people were getting sick of these songs & we actually gained business overall by dropping them. Well 10 years later, still at the same place, we still adhere to this policy & if you want to sing the profane songs, I have a list of clubs that allow you to & you may go there...
[This message has been edited by Lonman (edited February 01, 2003).]
Posts: 1845 | From: Tacoma, WA, USA | Registered: Nov 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Do you mind sharing your "No Profanity" rule from your book so other KJ's will have an idea on how to phrase them? I have one printed on the first page that sez "No profanity allowed. Some songs contain mature lyrics that can be offensive to others". Any elaborate ideas wherein I can impart this rule more clearly, but in a tactful way? Thanks!
Posts: 72 | From: Anaheim, CA | Registered: Jul 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Lit Up? Isn't that the one with profanity once, maybe twice? Perhaps the content of the total song upset them - I've done it a few times.
As for profanity, like Mark, if there are kids in the establishment, i.e., a bowling alley, even if I'm in the bar, no swearing. It's also a general rule in those establisments, and the KJ's follow it. Now if I go to a new place, I will ask what is your profanty rule. I think that works best., especially for Adam Sandler's At A Medium Pace, if I do that song, I will ask a 2nd time, what if it's the most nastiest song on karaoke? And if they answer anything goes...it's on.
Now, on the other hand, I find it easier to do the profanity over that "N" word, i.e., I'm Real, with that song, I got to judge the crowd, but the KJ, who is African American, says go for it, you do different songs - and this is popular and that is how the song goes, its not the word, but the way you use it, still sometimes, it doesn't feel right.
Posts: 2246 | From: Palmdale, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I just laid out over a $100 printing up a dozen books less than 2 weeks ago so I don't see doing anything too drastic till next year, but if profane lyrics becomes a real issue for me I may just create a separate adult section that I can put in and out of the book as necessary.
Posts: 177 | From: Girard, KS 66743 | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I agree with asking the barowners or managers or even "censoring" the singers for the sake of the gig, but my personal opinion is if you're going to ANY bar,tavern or club, expect profanity to happen at any given time. These places were DESIGNED for people to drink,smoke,dance,sing and use strong language. If you don't care to hear it, there are other entertainment alternatives such as the movies or a play. but even these types of entertainment can produce some strong dialog.The only other alternative is Church.
Posts: 49 | From: Duluth,MN USA | Registered: May 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I bill my show as "For Mature Audiences Only". It's noted on my business cards, contracts (private parties-he who hires me decides this), fliers and in my books. I'm not going to allow someone to stand up there and let rip with the F-bombs for no reason, but if they want to do a 'dirty version' ...I say go for it. The bars I work know this in advance. I will not work for anyone unless they've seen my show first. That way there is no surprises.
Posts: 650 | From: Massillon, Ohio USA | Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Speaking of "church", how about a politically-correct, anesthetized, neutral, banal, non-desript, archaic, diluted, and sanitized karaoke show hosted by "The Church Lady"??? I don't know if I would attend, unless of course they were serving a lot of sacramental wine!
P.S. I hope that everyone takes this in the spirit intended and will not become offended. It is not my intention to affront or offend.....just a little simple humor and nothing more!
Posts: 682 | From: Seattle, Washington, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ah yes..."Lit Up"! Fantastic song...haven't listened to it in a while, so I've forgotten about any profanity in it. I do want to try it, now that I've finally found someone who has it in their system.
Regarding the N-word: I sing "Fantastic Voyage" by Coolio from time to time, but I will not sing it in the presence of black people, for obvious reasons.
Best,
Mark
Posts: 1595 | From: Willoughby Hills, Ohio, USA | Registered: Apr 1999
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by paul the lizard: I learned the hard way because I was fired from two different gigs because once the female owner objected and another time the female bartender objected to the "Pussycat Song". From now on I let everyone know ahead of time
Now that blows me away. The OWNER objected, and the female bartender objected? Without giving you a second chance? Without informing you "that song offends me"???
Now that's just wrong! I would have told everyone I know to avoid those bars... I would have made it part of my show!
Grrrrrrrr! I detest people like that!
It would be one thing if they said something to you about it, and you persisted! But ONCE???
Jeez!!
Posts: 3332 | From: Independence, mo | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yeah, but what gets me is that at one place, I can sing whatever song I want to with whatever words.....except... At A Medium Pace. I used to sing it with a female bartender before it was on karaokee... at the place, they don't have a screen for the audience, so they don't know what to expect.... but I don't know how a shampoo bottle up a certain part of someone's antomony could be more offesive than the "N" word. Yeah, I can say N...., F###, and all that other stuff, but....
Posts: 2246 | From: Palmdale, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
And I quote my gig here: "Folks, every now and then a song will come up with language or subject matter which might be deemed offensive to some of you. If you are easily offended by bad language or crude commentary....WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING IN A BAR?!?" Having said that, I would then intro whoever was doing "Strokin'" or "Closer" or whatever.
Weddings, I simply advise the person who hands in the slip that there is an appropriate level of decorum. Wouldn't want Great Aunt Gertrude getting offended now!
Posts: 745 | From: Portland, OR, USA | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
It's kind of sad that people assume corse language is acceptable unless told otherwise. Because I work in a bar I deal with it but I would never assume it's OK without asking first. Like Lonman suggested the kids who get off on screaming obscenities on the mic's are generally the problem customers and I don't mind losing them as singers. One bar I work does not permit f words and slang refering to female genetilia, I announce it over the mic when we start that there are language restrictions and if they have any questions talk to me. I remind them again if there is an occurance, and most songs with language problems in my book have an asterisk with a footnote indicating some venues have language restrictions and to see me for questions. In three years there I have never had anyone ask so I have to remind them when they put up those songs, they either have to change the wording or skip the offending words, those who dont are done singing for the night. The other bar I work has no restrictions so I often get to see and hear their vocabulary prowess in all it's glory. Because I don't care for bad language the worst offending songs are usually edited out of my book such as the songs that just use f words for shock value (Nine Inch Nails-"Closer" comes to mind).
IMHO Just as TV uses sex to sell, bad language has become a cheap and easy way to sell music that otherwise wouldn't sell on it's own merits.
posted
I can agree that profanity for profanity's sake can be a bit disconcerning (this from someone who does those songs) - sometimes, though it drives a point home. Point in case, Liz Phair's F### & Run where the girl is telling the story about everytime she meets a guy its always F### & run and can't get a boyfriend. I love the song, and am not offended by the language. Sometimes when I put on a live lp, I cringe, and say what the hell is going on. I think you have the right to do whatever song you want, but you have the responability to know when and where you can do those types of songs.
Posts: 2246 | From: Palmdale, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have posted on this here and around the net on this so forgive my repetition. I am no prude; and yes, I do work the night club circuit, but some language is NOT acceptable over the open microphone at my shows. I will warn people when I do have a song with the one word that I don't allow, IF YOU SEE KAY. I have warned people not to do sound alikes and if it slips out - NOT to repeat it. (I will turn the song and mic off and go to the next singer. I have had to do this less than a handful of times.)
I do have NIN's CLOSER but only at a private adult party with the host's permission could I play it, along with other songs. I have had to take some songs out like THE RODEO song on SC 8117 and others on AMERISINGS 2001, to name a few.
Some places it is anything does, at many there are restrictions. Don't assume, ask the KJ if they restrict any music. If you don't like it go to another show. The KJ should NOT embarrass a customer, but they may restate policy on certain music for others not just yourself.
It drives me bonkers to see Karaoke hosts with songs in their books, only to be told "No, you can't sing that here" or "You can't say the 'F' word"...
Um, excuse me? What the heck is THAT song IN the book in the first place??? If it's the venue that says otherwise... have them share in the cost to completely redo the books!!
Now, I've told a person at my new gig that the BAR is requesting that they don't sing another song with profanity... but this is directed to a guy that's NOT a regular (not anymore), and has the ability to sing ANYTHING in the book, but insists on singing the offensive stuff.
One of the best songs i've EVER heard was "What It's Like" by Everlast!! Tells a great story, and it has a moral to it. The language is just the means to tell it.
George Carlin is probably one of my favorite comedians in the world!! Not because he cusses, but rather, HOW he does it... in context. He's not like Eddie Murphy's stand up who just says "F' this" and "F' that" because he can. George is extremely intelligent, and uses the chosen words to their utmost ability.
SOmetimes, there just isn't any other word you can substitute. The story won't be as profound, or mean the same thing.
That's why I detest censorship so much.
If it's ON the original (cdg manufacturer), then it's free game in my shows... always.
Posts: 3332 | From: Independence, mo | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
One of the principal barometers that SC utilizes - from a financial cost-benefit standpoint - as a tool in order to determine which songs it will "take a chance" on recording and putting out on a CDG is POPULARITY, and if said popularity should sell CDGs and make SC efforts profitable, then what is the point of them producing certain songs containing profanity and delivering them to a target market when these songs may not even be allowed to be utilized within establishments which are supoosed to be an integral part of that very target marketplace? If the free speech component of the karaoke world is becoming increasingly challenged and policy therby more and more controlled and dictated by the political correctness nemesis, then why would KJs continue to be purchasing representative songs from musical idioms which may be becoming more obsolete with each passing moment?
Posts: 682 | From: Seattle, Washington, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I may be short-circuiting the dialogue flow here, but I just realized one obvious counter-argument to the previous posting. Someone will inevitably rise to inform me that in answer to the question of why a KJ would continue to purchase music with questionable lyrics/messages, etc., there is the conspicuous retort that a KJ might purchase CDGs containing aforementioned music because many of the other songs on the same representative disc may indeed be of "acceptable" content and overall substance. My question to this line of reasoning is this: if a KJ does purchase CDGs with a mixed-bag of acceptable and unacceptable lyrical content contained therein...and if a KJ then publishes all the song titles on these types of CDGs in the official songbooks used at karaoke shows (in karaoke venues), then would it not be considered contradictory, capricious, and arbitrary for performance of certain songs listed in a songbook to be prohibited? Posts: 682 | From: Seattle, Washington, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
We serve commercial venues. Since the venue PAYS for the karaoke's services and the crowd PAYS the venue losing paying customers in a block is not good business, unless they are CAUSING a problem. It is bad business to alienate any of the spending market you serve. Perhaps there are venues and KJ's where this is not an issue, but for many KJ's this IS an issue, so ask and what is the policy.
A KJ should NEVER try to embarrass a customer for a rule infringement for a first error/slip, especially a new one. It may not always be handled diplomatically, and hopefully it was a lack of tact and not an effort to ridicule that happens.
NOT all markets are the same. Not all venues are operate the same way, some expect more from their cliental than others. There is nothing wrong with a biker bar, honky tonk, supper club, cocktail lounge or local bar, they can serve very different types of people and have very different flavors/atmospheres. They evoke different expectations of behavior, so be sure to ask. Could you envision CHEERS with karaoke singing CLOSER?
DON'T ASSUME - ASK AND RESPECT THE HOST & VENUE'S WISHES. If you aren't happy with any show for any reason, vote with your feet and wallet.
[This message has been edited by Star Karaoke (edited February 12, 2003).]
Posts: 542 | From: Mobile, Alabama, USA | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I know I have posted this before but we have kind of gotten around offending people by posting a cuss rule. If you cuss on the microphone you have just made a 1 dollar donation to ST. Judes hospital for children for each curse. Our venues get free advertising by making press releases a couple times a year with the amounts. People who would normally be offended will join the rest of the regulars in counting along with the dollar amount , and someone who really wants to curse on the mic may do so (albeit not "freely").Those who just want to sing a particular song will usually radio edit themselves. It's not perfect but it has worked for us for almost 10 years now.
Posts: 64 | From: Saylorsburg, Pa USA | Registered: Sep 1999
| IP: Logged |
What an ingenious idea re: donations to St. Jude Childrens' Hospital! Even though imposition of such a rule my leave the door open for controversy, I still think it is quite the clever mechanism indeed!
Posts: 682 | From: Seattle, Washington, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hi there, In our company we make it clear to our singers that we don't mind profanity as long as it is in the song...We have it clearly marked on each page of the song books, which songs have swearing and that the singers need to check with the KJ or bar management whether they are allowed to sing in that bar.
I think the way this KJ kandled it was very unprofessional!
Cathy Vaughan Average Joe Entertainment
------------------ Average Joe Entertainment http://members.rogers.com/joekaraoke
Point well-taken, but you can't deny the creativity involved with the "donation to a worthy cause" approach. At the very least, I found it to be an amusing concept!
While we all have our own opinions regarding what exactly constitutes "professionalism" in a complicated industry, I do believe that so long as one is concerned with a professional approach and attempts in earnest to be mindful of exercising a respectable degree of professionalism in their endeavors, then we are at least on the right track! Thank you for the honest feedback. This thread has generated some very good input for all to consider.
Posts: 682 | From: Seattle, Washington, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
I think collecting money for a worthy cause is a great idea...I didn't see that entry Profanity is a touchy thing at shows and we try to appraoch it as professionally as possible...if it happens to be a bar that allows people to swear, we will tell them all we ask is that they don't emphasize the swear words and don't add words that are not in the original song...basically try not to make it more obvious than it already is. The singers that come to ours shows are usually pretty good...in fact I haven't had to speak to a singer about it in along time. In regard to offending other people in the bar that are not singing...that is the big worry, that is why I leave it up to the bar owner to decide whether they want to permit profanity or not, after all it is their bar and they know their customers.
Cheers, Cathy Vaughan Average Joe Entertainment
------------------ Average Joe Entertainment http://members.rogers.com/joekaraoke
I believe that you are absolutely correct. It would appear that you are a KJ who prides herself on a professional approach. You are to be commended for that! You just go, Girl!!!
Posts: 682 | From: Seattle, Washington, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
On one occasion I was informed by the owner that it is an Liquor law violation for profanity to be broadcast/transmitted in the bar venue. I do not know the wording of said liquor law. I do believe it was to eliminate any potential other violation of the liquor law such as fights and other domestic disputes. He could be pulling my chain.
We had one customer try To Drunk to F##k and Closer, and A###ole. His performance was horrible judging from the crowd reaction.
He tried this stunt on a Sunday when I am not the KJ on that day, I work Tue. & Sat.
The owner informed me that this customer was "cut off" from Karaoke for a week. If the customer had any questions he could talk to the owner!
The problem was that he sang these songs at 8:30 p.m. when children were still in the bar, he even annoyed the patrons who were having dinner in the restaurant.
The restaurant has a wall separating it from the bar BTW.
We have had other people do the "The Rodeo Song", the "I-95 song", "The Dirty Polka", and "Because I was High", without disapproval of the owner. I know he does not want any "ramblings of profanity" I.E. someone who feels compelled to curse just because he/she has had their fill of spirits and has turned into Mr./Ms. microphone!
My feeling is if it not on the screen don't say it! I do have one song that will not be sung at all and that is Aenema by Tool! That is just too much on the profanity!!!
Just my $.02.
Peace,
Len
------------------ Life is Grand, Love is Real, Beauty is Everywhere. R.Clyne
Posts: 9 | From: Tucson, AZ, United States | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Az_Lenny: Down here in Arizona....
I am a KJ here in Tucson/Marana, AZ.
My feeling is if it not on the screen don't say it! I do have one song that will not be sung at all and that is Aenema by Tool! That is just too much on the profanity!!!
What The @#$%!!!! Aenema by Tool is the 2000 version of Hotel California, but with balls!!!!
Living in the shadow of Hollywood and L. Ron Hubbard that song hits the mark. Give me a little sarcaism (sorry bout the spelling) anyday. THe Song rocks and I will do it if someone signs up for that damn Hotel CA song.
Aenema is a great f#@$ing song, and if done in a place that is 21 or over, $#%^ it.
My 2.5 cents
Posts: 2246 | From: Palmdale, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hi, I've been reading this thread forquite a while now and have seen aruements for both points that make sense. My personal theory on it has always been, if I have it you can sing it. I ran inot this problem only once. Part of it was the language and the other part was some people did not like the new heavy metal. I was approache by the owner one Sat. before my show. He rather harshly scolded me and told me that songs with foul language and heavy metal with gorwling vocals were not to be done anymore. I explained to him my point of view, but he insisted. I did that show the way he asked and immediately started looking for a new venue with several offers that night and over the course of the next week. I ddo 2 shows a week to this day at that venue. Afer doing 2 shows the way hea asked me to he approache me again. This time it was to apologize to me and tell me to go back to what I was doing before. The reason for this was becvause for the 2 years prior, I had been averaging between 25 - 30 singer rotations on my list on a consistant basis, with some nights nearing 50. This meant usually standnig room only crowds over all becauas they were all bring ing at least 2-3 other people out with them. After the fist night of the "new rule" my list of singer droped to 6 total fot the whole night by the 2nd night. This meant a total crowd of about 10 or less at a time for the whlole night. Now after this it has never come up at any of my shows again and I have been doing 6 night's a week for 4 of the 4 1/2 years I have been at it. Soon to be including the Hard Rock Cafe in Pitts., Pa. Do what you feel is right for you. Oh yeah, I should also mention I have since gotten 2 seperate raises from the venue because of interest shown by other places.
Posts: 7 | From: Wheeling, WV, Usa | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
