posted
I'm curious as to how you guys prefer to set up your echo effects to give your singers a good "sweet" sound?
Specifically are you more partial to giving the sound more Depth, Delay or Repeat?
At this point I like a small amount of depth , a mid-scale repeat setting and a short delay, but I'd love to hear what is working for you guys. I got lots to learn...
posted
I like to run a dual effect: usually about a 300ms delay with the trail fed into a channel on the mixer (so I can eq the effect to the song), fed into a medium plate reverb. This works for most songs as long as the actual effect itself isn't overbearing. Usually you can't even tell it's there until it's turn off!
posted
In truth, I have always been dissatisfied with any "echo" effect. I'd rather hear the voice raw with the music, rather resembling the CDs you hear or MTV or whatnot. Yes, I do understand the need for it, but I like a crisper sound. Most shows I've attended, the systems don't have a nice reverb- they either pipe it through the board or (gasp)have the mics plugged into the player (ick ICK!!) ;rc:
No sir, I don't like echo at all.... No sir, I don't like echo at all....
Posts: 745 | From: Portland, OR, USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
I'm with you RC. NEVER! NEVER! NEVER! use the delay on the player! YUCK PUKE GAG Professional sound engineers spend hours trying to get the echo and reverb out of a room.
A little reverb maybe, 200ms of delay tops with very little repeat. The "Sweet" sound is in the singer and each microphone has a "sweet spot". If the Singer can't find it there is nothing reverb or echo or delay can do. The Best you can do for them is provide monitor speakers so they can hear themselves. Good singers will be able to find the sweet spot an mix their voice to the muzic.
Posts: 95 | From: Norwalk, CT USA | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
That's a very good point about the "sweet" spot. A good singer can handle the mic, and some others are just going to howl into it. No effects are really going to "fix" that.
I'm not a KJ, but I can really appreciate when a KJ knows to add or reduce reverb, or add chorus for certain songs. I've seen plenty of shows where they just crank up the echo for everyone, and it's no good.
posted
Different effects for different singer/song combos, is a must IMHO. Used sparingly a little bit of chorus can add presence to a weak-ish voice. Nothing truly helps a bad singer. Plate or Spring reverb for AM Gold/70s rock. Slight flange for grunge sometimes works. Gated Reverb for Phill Collins/Peter Gabriel. Save the 'Echo' for Cher's 'Believe'.
Compressors on the mic channels can help with the screamers. We run an independent monitor mix, and usually keep it dry so people can hear what they are doing.
posted
I used to sing at a place that used too much reverb. I always say that if you have to watch the lyrics on the screen to be able to tell what the singer is singing, that's too much reverb.
Interesting reading here about some of the terminology for the effects. I have a new Behringer mixer for my home system, so I'm just getting familiar with some of the names, like Flange, for example.
Posts: 79 | From: Strongsville, Ohio, USA | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Effects are supposed to enhance, not take over. If you can hear\ the effect, then it is too much (unless the song really calls for it - example White Rabbit needs to swim in reverb, almost every Creed song needs a chorus/flange/reverb, Elvis usually can stand about a 60-75 ms delay with a hint of spring reverb). Just about every commercial song recorded today has some level of effect on the vocals be ie reverb, delay, chorus or a combination of them all, always have a degree of compression. It's very rare that vocals would be mixed completely dry. You may not be able to hear them, but they are there.
Posts: 1845 | From: Tacoma, WA, USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
I'd like to do "Still Of The Night" by Whitesnake more often, but I don't like asking the KJ to adjust their sound for me. You need lots of delay for that one, and it's gotta be a slow one.
Posts: 1153 | From: Buffalo NY | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
i use reverb and delay when they are needed. One certain songs for certain singers i will add more delay to certain phrases. I Ran sound for bands before i was a KJ and know how to do it tastefully
------------------ DJ Mad Maxx Karaoke at it's finest!! Proud Member and Moderator at the USODJA www.usodja.com www.djmadmaxx.com
Posts: 1898 | From: DuBois, PA | Registered: Jun 1997
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Tim D
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posted
The fun part is shifting effects on the fly. Anyone ever try to do "Once in a Lifetime"- Talking Heads? Woof!
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posted
Not that one Tim, but, we just picked up 2 new mixing desks with built in FX. We still use the outboard FX (midverb4) as our main tool, but it's fun to punch in strong secondary effects at the apropriate moment.
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I guess I should clarify my goal with the effects.
There are natural differences in the acoustical properties of rooms. I've played in rooms that were so "stuffy" that I sounded much better outside in the open air than I did in that particular room.
I've played in other rooms where I sounded "warmer" than outside, yet there wasn't a distracting echo present.
My goal with the effects is usually just to add "warmth" as necessary so that the performer sounds like they are in a "live" room, without the echo being a noticeable distraction.
posted
You are going to need to adjust your settings for each & every room you play in. Some rooms you won't need to add as much effect, others you will, there is no miracle setting (wish there was) that you can use. Unless you want to spend a couple thousand bucks on the dbx Drive PA which will pretty much be the miracle set-up.
Posts: 1845 | From: Tacoma, WA, USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
I will agree with Lonnie's assessment, but also would like to add that for "warmth", sometimes you need to modify your EQ (if it's within your power to do so) Sometimes, you need to lean it more towards low-end and some rooms go the other way (i.e., don't have nearly as much bass in the vox as you think you need) Posts: 745 | From: Portland, OR, USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Then again, you could make them all sound like Mickey Mouse just to keep them humble. Posts: 902 | From: Joliet,IL.USA | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
Speaking of delays.............. I'm starting to learn a song by the band Sweet called Fox on the run. It is full of effects. Anyone familiar with this song please give me info. Thanks
Posts: 57 | From: Santa Fe Springs Cal. | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
Rokkenroke try this if you can run dual effects:
A long repeated echo subtle enough to hear but not walk over and some chorus or phlange to give it a bit of sizzle. That should get you close then you just have to play around with it to get it right.
Fox on the Run is a great tune and I think much of the effects are on the BG vocals which, when mixed with your voice and some effect should sound close.
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Different effects for different singer/song combos, is a must IMHO. 
