karaoke Professional?

Thank you,
Stacy

Professional- Full time or part time host with an exemplary work ethic, fair rotations, maintains accurate books, and has a consistent gig.

Hobbyist- part time karaoke host, does not have a regular gig, but rather picks up an occasional wedding, corporate party, etc. May also have a top notch work ethic, but not necessarily.

WHO really cares Stacy? As long as you're true to yourself.

What works for Tim, will not work for me, or Chip, or someone else. Or it may work!! The point is, I am my OWN person, with my OWN work Ethic, my OWN principles, and I run my karaoke shows the BEST way I know how. I do NOT play favorites, and I genuinely care about the quality of my equipment, music, and most importantly... my customers.

So what if I have a regular job and run a karaoke gig when I can??? I reinvest more money into my system and music than a lot of "professionals" because I DO care so much. And because I'm STILL trying to make my system and equipment the best!!

Does that make me a hobbyist, or a professional?

In YOUR eyes... or someone elses... that only matters to you.

However, I consider myself a professional. Always.

Stacy, Karaoke for what it is worth is what we want it to be. It is for the purist that believes it is a form of entertainment for everyone and promotes it as such, It is for the average person who goes home from a hard days work and finds it relieves their stress level after a hard day. Its for the dreamer waiting for their big break in show business that wants to hone their singing skills.

Its for the equipment junkie who loves to make the sound so clear you think you are at Carnegie Hall, and realizes he can make good money at the profession at the same time.

It is for the enterprising businessperson looking for a new and exciting way to make a living and have fun doing it as well.

It is for the everyday person looking for a new way to have fun.

It is what we make it Stacy. Professional, Hobbyist, Realist, Its what we want it to be, and that Stacy,

#1. "Hobbyist" = Hobby. Your main income is NOT derived from this activity. (whether you act and operate in a professional manner or not)

#2. "Professional" = Profession. Your main income IS derived from this activity. It is your profession. (whether or not you own equipment)

If you want to take the stand that anyone who get PAID, is a "professional" then fine. There is no such thing as a hobbyist in this business then is there?

Tim, look up the definition of "professional" in the dictionary you dope.

YOU are a "professional" banquet manager, not a professional karaoke host. A professional karaoke host wouldn't work for $10/hr.

There are plenty of "hobbyist" hosts that have a professional work ethic (most of our hosts are this way), and plenty of "professionals" that suck.

Convenient that your twisted definition just happens to fit your situation so you can label yourself as "professional."

No, really, Thank YOU for playing.

(don't make me put the clown pic here too.)

let me add to the mix

Professional KJ - Full time or part time host with a strong work ethic, fair rotations, respect for patrons/clients, registered business, pays taxes, refuses to play pirate media.

Hobbyist KJ - part time karaoke host. Thinks of themselves as a hobbyist. May or may not have a regular gig. May or may not act with professional values.

I have great difficulty calling a 'Pirate' a profesional even if all they do is karaoke 24-7, so I can't agree with my little Pony's dictionary-like definition.

Karaoke is a "profession," right?
Therefore, an expert practitioner of the business of karaoke would be a professional whether or not he/she works full or part time.

Only an ignorant fool throws a dollar sign on it.

I think Dog hit it closest as far as defining pro or hobbyist KJs, but as far as hobbyist itself goes, I wouldn't classify anyone who hosts as just a hobbyist. I also wouldn't say that just because someone has hosted, that they are a pro either (I made enough at it to buy half a Pioneer 555, does that mean I am or even was, a pro? I don't think so) Of course, BC said just last week or so, that he wouldn't classify anyone who reads these type of forums as a hobbyist either.

However, in the future, please don't confuse the issue with facts.... it really pi**es him off.

Everyone has their own definition of "professional," whether it's tied to the way you conduct yourself, monetary, etc...

Mine happens to be tied to income. We have hosts that work part-time and are very professional in the way they handle themselves and their work. We also have hosts who work "regular gigs" and that is their only source of income -- they are "professionals" as well.

The "hobbyist" in my book is the person with a large collection of discs, perhaps some decent sound equipment, a full-time job elsewhere and goes into a club for just over their beer tab. They don't care about making a profit, they don't have to they already have a main source of income... their primary interest is fun. (i.e. "hobby" like Mr. Webster up there)

If you read my post, it clearly states "part time" in both definitions.

I don't really give a crap what Chip's definition of professional is, I would pit my show against his any day of the week.

quote:

---

Originally posted by stacy:
I'm sorry to ask this question but I've been referred to as a hobbyist by someone and I'm not going to share the story so I just wanted to know what people considered a hobbyist.
And yes I know with their reputation I shouldn't care what they think.

---

If this is by the hack you're talking about, the one with the pirated library (saw his joke of a website), kiddo, you have NOTHING to worry about.

I would consider an insult from them a compliment of the highest regard. They're running SCARED from you GIRL!!!

You run an ACE show, and they KNOW it. They've HEARD about you, and have checked you out THEIRSELVES!!! That's FEAR, not just normal curiousity!

I come in a half an hour early off the clock to make sure the system is up and ready. No one asks or expects me to, I just do it. A "hobbyist" is not likely to have the same kind of work ethic as a "professional", and if Chip could pull his elitist head out of his butt for a minute, he might see clearly enough to understand that very simple fact.

Tim, Tim, tim....

You think that arriving a half hour early is some kind of special, dedicated "work ethic?" You're in dream-land.

I am among those who have slight reservations about including part-time KJs in the "professionals" set. But that does not mean I think that part-timers or hobbyists are unprofessional in terms of activities or their standards. So I am moving away from the word "professional" as a description.

I have to say, that I do tend to have a sliver of extra respect for those who KJ 5+ nites a week in the public domain (rather than private parties) and for whom it is their main/sole income. Why? because it is so hard to sustain that kind of gig portfolio over any length of time without investing a lot of oneself (not to mention one's money) in that business.

If I were part-time and had a main alternative source of income, I know we would have less riding on every little thing we do or don't do.

Someone (in my previous profession) once said to me........"until you try and run your own full-time business (where everything hinges on every little thing you do or don't do) you are only seeing half the picture and feeling a quarter of the pressure." I remember thinking the guy was just trying to put me down or make himself look big. It was only when we went full time into this business that I understood that he was just stating a fact.

Maybe that is why the Part-time / full-time issue gets so emotive. Those who KJ part-time think the full-timers are putting them down and the full-timers are feeling unrecognised for staking their whole livelihood in the KJ business.

So to me "hobbyist" means a favourite activity that is NOT one's main business or occupation. It is not meant to be a negative term, it just means those people (for whatever reason) don't invest as much time or are as financially reliant on any success or failure of that activity. And it is a perfectly valid choice. However it is hardly the cover-all alternative to "Professional".

Professional - this is just bound to cause upset......If you can't call yourself a Professional by some definition, does that mean you are unprofessional. Course not! but easy to see why the definitions differ so much.....who wants to fall outside of "Professional". Handy though it is to take the dictionary definition of Professional (belonging to, connected with a profession) and say "well that's everyone who KJs then!", I think most of us read a judgement about our standards and personal ethics into the use of the word.

That's why it is so easy to feel put down and to put people down when bandying these words around.

For the record we consider ourselves Ethical Full-time KJs. Does anyone find that description missing some vital component of information that you can find in the words "hobbyist" or "professional". If yes, we need to widen our description of ourselves. If not, job done.

Gheez, I miss you guys.

Lisa

While I understand what you're saying, I must respectfully disagree.

quote:

---

Someone (in my previous profession) once said to me........"until you try and run your own full-time business (where everything hinges on every little thing you do or don't do) you are only seeing half the picture and feeling a quarter of the pressure." I remember thinking the guy was just trying to put me down or make himself look big. It was only when we went full time into this business that I understood that he was just stating a fact.

---

I also feed my family, and I'm not beholden to the fickle entertainment industry. In today's economy, this has proven to be a very stable way to go.

Pressure? OMG girl, who WANTS it??? If I lose my gig tomorrow, I'm only out my INVESTMENT potential, not my family's income!

I've always thought the "full-timers" were just a bit jealous - hence the lable "hobbyist", because I have a system that rivals most that are permament installs. My selection is the best in town, and I blow away most house selections too.

My asking price is a bit more than most bars want to pay, but if they want the best, that's my company, with my experienced KJs.

So forgive me if I'm a bit touchy about labels from some people that can't compare equally. And most aren't like you... non-judgemental, when they use the title.

This previous discussion was started by someone that WAS.

For the record, you're full-timing it!!

If a regular job can say you work 32 hours a week and are full-time, then the sheer amount of what you're doing MORE than qualifies. You're also giving out examples that many pros DON'T do.

You know guys, it's QUITE possible to have a regular job and STILL work full time for your Karaoke. What you're talking about is a measly six hours every night. What we've been discussing lately is the behind the scenes stuff.

Tim, didn't I read that you recently redid all your books? Are you the one that does it for Ritas?

And Chip, I started out working someone else's system. That does NOT make Tim any LESS a professional than anybody else.

I have a very good friend that runs a house system. He flat out doesn't WANT to be the one transporting, setting up, testing, running, tearing down, and transporting the stuff back to "home base". He's VERY happy running a house system four nights a week. His expertise is in his music knowledge, and running the show. He also consults on the side. And he said as soon as I get my place going (a permament gig), he'll be there in a shot! And I'd be DAMNED lucky to have him.

Mobiles, private parties, in-house systems, are only a few of the types of shows out there.

Do you honestly think you can label us under TWO flippin' labels? Gimme a break! LOL!

From the part time shows to full time, we are all in this together no matter where it is. If we can't learn to work together or stop "Judging" eachother as businesses then there will never be a standard of excellence among any of us.

Tim runs a fine show, so do I, and so do those who go into this business, (I repeat,) business, so that all of our companies and shows will "Survive". That is the Key in our industry right now, to survive. There has never been a standard set on "Professional or Hobbyist," because all of us do our jobs the way we see how we should do it. Can anyone say that their show is really better all the time? We deal with multitudes of different singers every show, never one night the same as another, our libraries change, our equipment held to a standard by most singers who are "Spoiled" by some shows and always compare them to others. I hear it all the time, I see it with each show I do, or go to or even review for the publications I write for.

All of us full or part time, have a job to do, to give our shows the best we can and provide our audiences with the fun and professionalizm we have inside of all of us. Stop defining the "Words" and start defining our "Business". To provide for the public, good equipment, a nice atmosphere, a fun time, good libraries, and the chance to do it as many nights as we wish to work.

But you're right. When little snappish stuff happens - when egos get in the way of the foot about to go in the mouth... when people take a comment too personally, or when a comment is said TOO personally, it's very difficult.

It's a noble effort to strive for. In his own way, Mike is talking about a coalition, or union of some type. A set of rules and regulations maybe, that clearly defines the professional aspects.

Trouble is, with such a fluid industry, it would be hard to keep those values solid. When equipment, or music is no longer to be found (discontinued or flat-out illegal)... it would be very difficult to maintain. Maybe if the guidelines were very flexible...

I just think people need to stick to the basics of humanity, and treat everyone the way you want to be treated yourself. Hopefully, that's in a GOOD way.