posted
I went to a karaoke show last night and was astonished by what I witnessed. As I was waiting to sing the two KJ's were copying my music for themselves and placing the finished disk into a separate case. As I went up to sing I saw they using a computer to quick copy my songs and everyone elses. When I saw this going on I immediately told my friends about the stealing of our songs that we paid for with our hard earned money. As I said, I went up there and took my disk out away from them and said," I can't believe you all are copying my disk." I took that copy of the disk away from them and immediately went to the manager of the establishment and told them what was going on. They acted like (so what)it didn't bother them. What has happened to peoples morals? Of course, everyone by now knows I won't be back to that club.
Posts: 79 | From: Nashville, TN USA | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
I know I've asked this Q? before and I have reported somebody already but, nothing was ever done about it.
Posts: 79 | From: Nashville, TN USA | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Let's just say that the KJ that did that with one of my discs would have an awful lot of little pieces of greenish-blue plastic laying at his feet after I caught him.
I don't leave my discs with the KJ long enough for them to copy them anyway. Many times, I take it up and drop it in the player when my turn comes up, or I hand it to them just before the last singer is done their song.
If it's a bar that I'm not too familiar with the KJ, or maybe a place I don't go to very often, my discs stay at home or in the trunk.
Why would you even go to a show, if you know they are burning or using burnt CDG's, let alone bring your own? The next time you attend a show like this, ask them for a copy, then you have evidence of them burning CDG's. Then send it to the original manufacturer as proof with details. As everyone should have learned in kindergarten, you don't copy someone elses work. It's CHEATING and you get a big fat ZERO.
If this is the couple that we think it is, on a Monday night show, they will even tell you they are backed by BMI. No proof though.
This is the type of crap that goes on that makes it harder for legit KJ's who do this for a living (not just weekend warriors) to get good paying gigs. These people will do it for beer money. But if that's the type of show you like to keep going to, don't b#tch about it, because as long as you keep supporting them, they will keep doing what they are doing.
Posts: 25 | From: Nashville, TN USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
I simply am flabberagsted at what I just read, I would never even have fathomed that someone would go so far as to bring a bloody computer out to their gig and have the balls to do this, amazing. Since this guy obviously deserves to be publicly stoned, why not just tell us the venue and KJ? Let's make the dirt bag public! Then maybe someone can go after him. Does this really happen in a widespread fashion? I take some of my own collection with me to other shows, at times I've wondered why it took 2 rotations to bring my disc back......
Posts: 531 | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
BTW Found, in response to the title question of this post, yes there is something you can do, beat the offending KJ senseless or pay someone 50 bucks to have it done! *L*
Posts: 531 | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Like I said before if I caught a KJ making illegal copies of my discs I would probably let as many people as I could know this was happening at the gig. Karaoke people LOVE to spread gossip and I would think that if you tell a few people by the end of the week your whole "karaoke community" would know how dirty this KJ is.
BTW: One night I was at a gig and the KJ told me that he could burn a CD at his booth with song of me singing on it throught the night for $5. I sat there wondering...if they could do that I wonder if they had the technology to copy a CD+G. I made sure my disc was giving back to me right after I sung. That's the only self-defense mesure you can use to prevent your CD+Gs from being copied.
Posts: 1201 | From: Kansas City, MO USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
Turn them duckpluckers into SPIN or KAPA. Get your reward money if possible and then sit back and bask in the knowledge that you help put a thief out of business.
posted
I don't want to leave my disks at home. I buy them so I can have them with me just in case the KJ doesn't have the song I sing. I did say something to my friends about it. One guy was upset but, the other person I was with said,oh well. I know I won't go back there. You all should have seen the look on that guys face when I busted him for doing that. I walked up there and he was trying to stall me by telling me he would bring it over to me. I said, "No you can take it out of your Adaptec CD copier from your computer.
Posts: 79 | From: Nashville, TN USA | Registered: Oct 1999
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I only went in there one night and that was my first time. I did ask for my copy of the disk that THEY DIDN'T FINISH. I take my disks with me so that I will have the song to sing just in case they have a contest or event. Some KJ's don't have a huge selection like you do. Some places only have two sheets in their book. I go out to your show because, I don't have to take my music in and I like that. My friends took me out (you know the ones that are regulars at your show)there and they saw it too and they take their own disks. If we are kindergardeners like you are referring then I guess you have a kindergarden class karaoke joint. As for the Karaoke Crittic as you refer also I am not. I have seen the posts and don't know who that is I promise. I have noticed the reviews on almost all karaoke places listed on Digital City Nashville Bars and I've only been to Four in town. Doodles, Ivory's, Olympias, and Boardwalk. I know all of you and I'm sorry for the last post and thought you wanted to give it a rest. I did and as for other people who go to your show and talk about you (bad) that come to my place I have no control over. So whoever the karaoke crittic is should at least show he's legit himself.
Posts: 79 | From: Nashville, TN USA | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Unfortunately, with a bit of knowledge and equipment, it takes only minutes to copy a disc...
Posts: 176 | From: Alliston, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jun 1999
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I thought if you made a cd, a cassette or a video of a customer singing it would be ok since it would be for personal use. It seems unlikely that any of my customers would find a buyer. But according to the KAPA web site doing that violates two different laws.
Bob
[This message has been edited by Kamikaze Karaoke (edited March 31, 2001).]
Posts: 139 | From: Spokane WA usa | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
No, it's DEFINITELY NOT okay to record someone using an SC produced disc with songs that are published, legally owned copyrights.
Even if SC agreed to such a use of our products - which we have not and are unlikely to - this use of any published song is a copyright violation on behalf of the writers of the song.
What makes anyone think that songwriters and publishers will embrace this concept? We have enough trouble with Publishers as it is. Just the administrative nightmare alone to obtain the legally required licensing to implement this idea DWARFS any small revenue stream that might result.
At least at this point in the development of the karaoke marketplace.
Posts: 4262 | From: Charlotte, N.C., USA | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Well, I must admit, thats a new one on me. Actually copying discs at your show on the fly. How brazen and stupid can people be? I also find it hard to believe that KAPA or whatever the agency of the month is wouldn't be interested in this.
Posts: 575 | From: West Hartford, CT USA | Registered: Apr 2000
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posted
It really makes you leary to go to other shows knowing that such technology does exist out there to do this. I'm always watching the KJ when he's handling my discs but you can't be on it every single second. If I did catch someone doing that I'd be sure to let someone know about it...if the owners don't want to do anything about it then it's off to KAPA or the police.
Then again, me and Mr. Louisville may need need some "spring training".
[This message has been edited by AnthonyT (edited March 31, 2001).]
Posts: 1201 | From: Kansas City, MO USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
If I understand the law right (don't know if anybody really does)and wanted to make a lot of reward money I would put together a karaoke program for kids and at the end of our program when we do our big show for parents. I would contact KAPA or someone and as the parents video taped thieir little darlings sing I would bar the doors and have all these menaces to society arrested before they can go home make copies of these tapes and distribute them to grandparents.
I know SC does not make these laws and they are designed to protect writers and musicians and others who make a living in this business. And there seems to be alot of area for interpitation as to what is personal and what is commercial.
Bob
Posts: 139 | From: Spokane WA usa | Registered: Jan 2001
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I understand all points being made. We started our business first as customers and since most companies do not buy new disks we soon had more than alomst every KJ in town. We take the disks we want to use when we go out, because Sound Choice is the best and that is what we want to sing to in most cases. To say we should leave them home is preposterous... We bought them so we could use them....Not store a great collection of expensive unused disks.
We have a KJ in Phoenix here who is listed on the KJ list and basically makes the rest of the legitimate KJ's in town look like we are mistreating our customers. He does 4 hour shows for $100 and tells customers anyone who is charging more is ripping them off. He lists that he has the largest selection in the valley (Phoenix) and when I checked out his show, he does indeed...... Not one legitimate disk. Books and books filled with copied CDG's. Now to my point.... SPIN does nothing....EVER! I have turned this gentleman in via phone, e-mail etc. Nothing has been done. They will not even respond to the e-mails.......
This brings me to my next issue... I know he buys one copy of each CDG because he buys at one of the same stores that I do.... He then copies it for his 2nd and 3rd set of equipment. ?While I don not think that should be legal I do think that you should be able to have one copy of each disk for archive purposes
We have had CDG's broken, lost, groups of them stolen, Why can we not make copies of them legally to keep our originals safe. They can not be insured that I have found(legitimately as a business tool)...Some of the ones that we have had broken are now out of print..Can't replace them.
Next - they are now marketing a machine that holds all your music on a big hard drive and plays through a computer. How are you going to legislate that. Obviusly that is a great big copying machine with all originals left at home.
Just a bunch of random thoughts..... Let me know what you think.
Posts: 12 | From: Mesa, AZ, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Maybe that is why SC nolonger supports SPIN but supports KAPA (check SC's home page for the link).
Are you familier with the term "the cost of doing business" every business has losses in daily operations, think of a retail store items get stolen or damaged fixtures need updating you need to convert your old cash-register to a point of sale inventory control system. In other industries tools and machines wear out. Just because the technology exists to duplicate something at a very low price dosen't make it right.
As far as the karaoke juke box I bet it is going to be considered piracy to use it but, I like the idea of being able to put 12,000 songs on one harddrive and not lug around 100's of CD's.
Bob
Posts: 139 | From: Spokane WA usa | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
I think the CAVS jukebox would only be considered piracy of you are using music not licnesed to be used on it. Last time I looked at it, they had agreements with Music Maestro and a couple smaller labels. I suppose if a KAPA representative was in the bar and saw a Sound Choice logo on the screen, they'd be able to take some action. Of course, they'd have to make sure it was a song being played off the hard drive, as that unit can play CDGs like any other karaoke player.
posted
I just had a guy who worked for me take over another show and I was appalled when he told me All the disk were copies of Sound choice. How can I compete with such B.S. No wonder he does shows for 50 to 75 dollars cheaper than I can. Stiff rules need to be enforced on such theft.
Posts: 20 | From: Colonial Beach, Va.22443 USA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
found500- One of the first things you can do to help eliminate the illegal copying is to not only NOT frequent that establishment, but inform all your friends! A little picketing could go a long way towards making the bar owners reconsider their options... Never underestimate what one person can do, and when several individuals see the same cause, it can move mountains. =now if only we could pressure the oil companies to release those patents on the supercarburetor and the hydrogen=powered cars.... Take heart, and keep the faith in karmic justice! Posts: 745 | From: Portland, OR, USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Of course, those people who are copying discs actually believe it's a victimless crime. Ask a songwriter how he would feel about it.
Posts: 20 | From: Bremerton, Wa | Registered: May 2001
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posted
Song writers get screwed pretty regularly IMHO.
Everybody knows the singer who got rich and famous off the work of the song writer. Yet what do people say when they hear a great song? Not "Wow, what a great singer", but "I love that song".
Half the general public is so clueless they think all singers write their own material.
The real talent just never seems to get anywhere near proportionately rewarded.
posted
Just a quick question about something I'm not sure of....if you go to a Karaoke show and witness something like this going on...can you call the police...will they do anything? These people are, after all, breaking the law. Anybody know the answer?
quote:Originally posted by DanJ: Let's just say that the KJ that did that with one of my discs would have an awful lot of little pieces of greenish-blue plastic laying at his feet after I caught him. Dan
posted
Listen you can talk about it til the cows come home it's not going to change anything. People have been copying music for years along now with computer programs books, etc. Unfortunately it's a part of business. Everyones done it whether it's copying music or paying someone under the table for services. As far as KAPA, SPIN, CAKE, etc, they are useless organizations unless the gov't gives them some teeth to prosecute.
Bar owners don't care if their DJs or KJs have pirated music or if the band is a little drunk. As long as the entertainment brings in customers and they make money, they're happy.
Listen everybody knows it's illegal but we all do it in one form or another. SC has produced discs that have been pulled due to copyright problems along with just about every company out there. So before everyone has a heart attack, everyone get down from their high horse and chill.
Posts: 377 | From: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
You guys/gals are cracking me up because you are getting so passionate over a thread that is almost two years old! LOL! NewbieKJ, check out the date of the poster directly above you. It was "May 25, 2001". You have done some serious mining to pull this one out of the archives! hehehehe *wink* Actually, it was a interesting thread.
quote:Originally posted by Timberlea: Listen everybody knows it's illegal but we all do it in one form or another.
BTW, Timberlea... WRONG! Not everyone does it. Not even in one form or another. There are those who do play by the rules. A comment like that is bound to offend a number of KJ's. Also... no one needs to get down off their "High Horse" and chill. No one had a heart attack. THIS THREAD IS ALMOST 2 YEARS OLD! LMAO!
[This message has been edited by Diane (edited March 27, 2003).]
posted
Diane, take a stress pill. So if I investigated your background and followed you for a while, I will never find one thing you've done wrong. Right, I'm a realist and have seen many things in my time and know that people try to get away with things whether it is speeding, fudging on taxes or whatever, it's human nature. The problem is people don't like to look at themselves and get self-rightious. This is not putting down anybody, this is being human.
As for copyright infringements ask BC or any other producers about it. That's life.
Posts: 377 | From: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Much in the same manner as the UN is becoming more ineffective and irrelevant in it's mission, apparently so goes KAPA, SPIN, & CAKE down the same path.....and that truly is a shame given the contention that future proliferation of rampant, unchecked piracy may indeed become destined to potentiate severe damage, if not ultimate destruction of the industry as we know it!
Human nature is a vast, complicated, and far-reaching quantity, fraught with certain elements of variability and sometimes even unpredictability. On balance, and in general terms, however, human nature can be fairly-accurately quantified, thus I do have a basic awareness and understanding of what Timberlea has expressed. I can appreciate why the concept was presented. Sometimes, as human beings, we all may do things and/or hear of others doing things that make us all pause and become ashamed of the human condition, but hey, it's what we are and it's all we've got to work with! I think the better part of wisdom should dictate that whenever we, as human beings, become aware and gain knowledge of certain social or professional conventions, and/or ethics, guiding principles, etc., then we should strive to do the right thing....when we in fact do realize and understand what "the right thing" actually IS in any given circumstance. I'm not a philosopher by any stretch of imagination, however I do try in earnest to exercise common sense and reasonability as a rule. As with everyone, I have failed many times in practicing what I preach, but I do recognize my failings and always try to improve....this being representative of yet another primary common facet of human nature which I believe most individuals practice and strive to maintain. As for the lunatic fringe who don't subscribe to such a notion, and the remaining segments of society which somehow reject and thus do not fit into the common matrix....well, suffice to say, correction of that social dynamic just may simply remain hopeless!
[This message has been edited by Rockhawk (edited March 27, 2003).]
Posts: 682 | From: Seattle, Washington, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Timberlea: Diane, take a stress pill.
Um, I don't need a stress pill. Did you NOT see all the smilies and hahaha's??? Hello?? I was making a joke because the thread is like almost two years old and you are telling people to "get off their high horses"! LOL! Those horses have been in the barn a long time and I imagine 1/2 of the people from this thread don't even come to this forum anymore! I am a realist too, but I am not a thief, and that is what this thread was about. Wait! Nor am I a KJ, so excuse me for interupting in the KJ forum. Goodbye! have a nice day!
posted
Sorry Diane I missed the smiles but I still stick to what I said. It doesn't matter if this discussion has gone on for two years. There are new people and it is also one of those topics which will never go away, just like who was better The Beatles or The Rolling Stones.
Chip you're right don't give them the opportunity and they won't get copied.
Rockhawk, sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders.
[This message has been edited by Timberlea (edited March 27, 2003).]
Posts: 377 | From: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Mar 2002
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You make-a-me so laugh.
and hahaha's??? Hello?? I was making a joke because the thread is like almost two years old and you are telling people to "get off their high horses"! LOL! Those horses have been in the barn a long time and I imagine 1/2 of the people from this thread don't even come to this forum anymore! I am a realist too, but I am not a thief, and that is what this thread was about. Wait! Nor am I a KJ, so excuse me for interupting in the KJ forum. Goodbye! have a nice day! 
